michaelni changed the topic of #ffmpeg-devel to: Welcome to the FFmpeg development channel | Questions about using FFmpeg or developing with libav* libs should be asked in #ffmpeg | This channel is publicly logged | FFmpeg 6.1 has been released! | Please read ffmpeg.org/developer.html#Code-of-conduct
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<another|>
Anyone else getting AI spam on their commit email?
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<Lynne>
duke?
<Lynne>
all the time
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<another|>
Some "Kai" wants to sign me up to his AI newsletter, praising my ffmpeg contributions.
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<balling>
Wrong, Kai is not AI generated, its ampersand is Apple style, not present in ASCII. ChatGPT will generate normal ' sign, just checked. Probably not spam either, but I disabled Gmail app spam filter.
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<courmisch>
another|: Duke Abbadon AI yes, I don't see the point that is trying to achieve
<courmisch>
I procmailed it to oblivion after a while
<elenril>
duke abaddon is weird
<aaabbb>
what happens with the 2nd vote since several private vote urls were posted in public?
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<elenril>
ignore it and it will go away
<elenril>
speaking of which
<elenril>
michaelni: I'm still waiting for a list of extra GA members from you
<aaabbb>
someone not authorized to vote voted on both public posted private urls
<elenril>
both out of 4?
<aaabbb>
i only improperly voted on^W^Wsaw 2
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<balling>
Lynne: BTW, when we talked on email you still did not tell me why you cannot apply legacy mp3 (not even aac) apple style iTunSMPB. First, they are used by author's project, he just sent a patch when I asked. 2nd, the FATE files for that patch are there in FATE. So files are in FATE that are unused.
<Lynne>
I don't remember anything about mp3 skip
<Lynne>
it should be a constant 1144 samples iirc, though, shouldn't it?
<aaabbb>
balling: that's not really true anymore, fdk and qaac are extremely close these days
<balling>
aaabbb: they were close even before, we were talking twoloop *native* encoder of ffmpeg
<Lynne>
I have new analysis code written which is probably enough to outdo qaac
<aaabbb>
ah, yeah that one is not good lmao
<Lynne>
but with this whole preskip brokenness, and me doing xhe-aac now, I'm not sure I'd like to rewrite our aac encoder
<balling>
@Lynne I hope you still merge 960 patch
<balling>
960 patch is for HE/v2 decoder
<Lynne>
yup, I'll finish that, it's even related to xhe-aac in a way
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<aaabbb>
Lynne: that would cause the native encoder to outdo qaac?
<balling>
I though you finished 960 patch already? The second patch from another person was complete, but you pointed out some bugs
<balling>
aaabbb: no, 960 patch is for digital radio mondial
<balling>
*Mondiale
<aaabbb>
oh
<balling>
It is for SDR with gnuradio. You decode digital stream from ether. Did you know that even decodibg FM radio is very complicated, because it has very different spectrum is different countries and to decode stereo you need a RTX 2080 Ti at least? Ahaha
<balling>
*Mondiale is called DRM too, very funny
<Lynne>
balling: it wasn't complete, it wasn't compliant
<balling>
You pointed out there was 1 bug or 2. And then sent the patch in reply.
<Lynne>
it was more serious than a bug or two, as I found out while merging the code into my patch
<balling>
format is here, comment 18. "the byte offset from the first audio frame to the 8th-from-last frame" also means something, though https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/2325#comment:18
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<durandal_1707>
Quick favor from an FFmpeg user
<durandal_1707>
This message seems dangerous
<durandal_1707>
Similar messages were used to steal people's personal information. Avoid clicking links, downloading attachments, or replying with personal information.
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<aaabbb>
durandal_1707: which message?
<JEEB>
I think one of my emails also got that message
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<Lynne>
xhe-aac reads more like a D&D ruleset than specifications with all heuristics
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<Lynne>
only they don't mention that it's based on another old ruleset, they just expect you to know everything about the old ruleset too, without telling you what's clearly different, just what is the new way
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<balling>
Android already has xHE decoder. Part of fdk aac. In fact decoder with ffmpeg works, just seek is broken, because probe is still from ffmpeg https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/8690
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<JEEB>
except fdk-aac's license is not GPL compatible so you cannot distribute an FFmpeg built with any GPL components (x264, x265 etc) with it. so adding support in the avcodec decoder makes sense in other ways than just "the person is interested in it"
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<elenril>
michaelni: re your private email, i believe it is a VERY bad idea to put people on the ballot when they did not actively agree to being on it
<elenril>
I do not insist for that active agreement to be public (though then again I see no good reason for it not to be)
<elenril>
but there must be consent from their side
<elenril>
otherwise it's spam and borderline harrassment
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<BBB>
durandal_1707: I got that also
<BBB>
I have to admit, it was a well-crafted email
<BBB>
the "ffmpeg github" was kind of weird though, and using ffmpeg just for downscaling seems ... uh ... mis-informed?
<BBB>
maybe we each got a different variant of the same message, too
<elenril>
people do all kinds of weird things with ffmpeg
<balling>
@JEEB it is more simple to open a server in Iran where GPL cannot be enforced, because the country is not part of Berne convention. I will ppint out that we all know non-free source of fdk ffmpeg binary on github, right?
<JEEB>
I know people break the license restrictions. And as usual, any license related stuff is just extra if the person has an interest in implementing something
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<balling>
@JEEB the point is it destributes configure non-free binaries with fdk and x264. In USA jurisdiction. 🤗
<JEEB>
yes? doesn't make it any less correct. it is annoying that fdk has a weird custom license. but for some reason instead of people complaining to GOOG just do not follow the license?
<JEEB>
but as I said, even if you consider the reason of licensing irrelevant
<JEEB>
if someone *wants* to implement something due to interest, then none of your reasoning has any game to play there
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<balling>
At least openssl since 3.0.0 is Apache now. Compatible, even on windows. FIXES horrible bug with schannel about failed to send close TLS message, and wireshark looks very nice too compared to Windows crypto code. I had spend some type finding out how to leak the encryption key from schannel. Oogh.
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<balling>
@BBB if you have account on github it links to Sign-off-by as author (can be 3 and more authors, each with own Co-authored-by) and also if you are the committer it also links.
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<BBB>
I understand how he got my email address :) it's not hard to find
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<BBB>
it's more about "why would you refer to ffmpeg's github when talking about how great ffmpeg is"
<BBB>
github is not ffmpeg's official source code location
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<elenril>
so many people talking to themselves today
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<balling>
@BBB it is not about source code. He looks at social network profiles. Github is a social network. It has public profiles with links to X, Facebook, etc. Patchwork does not allow users to insert their social.
<BBB>
elenril: I was talking to balling :)
<BBB>
to/with etc.
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<cone-878>
ffmpeg Rémi Denis-Courmont master:45d0eb3f70fe: lavc/llauddsp: R-V V scalarproduct_and_madd_int16
<elenril>
>Thing is, if they are subscribed and still don't ask to be added to the GA, I don't think they should be "volunteered" by someone else. They are of course welcome to apply.
<michaelni>
"Adding the people who were part of the GA before; or are just under the threshold, but were active before; or are part of the infra teams and packaging; seem sane to add to the ballot."
<michaelni>
thats what jb said, and i refered to it multiple times noone said "no" IIRC
<elenril>
in my understanding that was with assumption that they agree to it
<elenril>
or at least know about it
<elenril>
it seem very rude to me to put someone's name on a ballot without even telling them
<michaelni>
sure but noone said this a week ago. and i think i never said that i intended to contact them, just the people who fell outside of jbs set of rules
<michaelni>
"otherwise I will contact them" not i will contact all
<michaelni>
i only said i will contact the ones outside jbs definitions
<elenril>
I suggest you start using punctuation then
<elenril>
because my reading of that email was that you would ask all the people whether they want to be on the list
<elenril>
I am VERY strongly opposed to putting people's names on the ballot with no indication that they know about it
<michaelni>
thats ok but what do we do now ? should i contact them? and how long do they have time ? also i have no working email for at least ting but maybe more
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<elenril>
if you really want them to be on the ballot, then you should contact them, yes
<elenril>
if we have no working email for someone, then IMO that is a good indication that they should NOT be on the ballot
<michaelni>
true
<JEEB>
and yea, my understanding was as well that such people are open to be included (within some common sense limits) but I'd expect some sort of request/will for it. being pushed into a system in some cases after years - without any sort of previous contact - is something I'd consider quite odd.
<BBB>
how would they vote without a working email?
<BBB>
so we must know their email :)
<BBB>
otherwise it's logically impossible to vote, right?
<michaelni>
not impossible but close (they could be added to the GA and later provide a working address) but i agree we should drop them from this vote now as we cannot tell them about it and doing that seems what everyone wants
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<michaelni>
JEEB, i thought we vote on them first and if they pass we tell them they where selected to be extra members of the GA and if they are ok with that. I mean FFmpeg has also won all kinds of contests we never have been asked ahead of time
<michaelni>
but ill mail all of them and ill CC anton or something
<JEEB>
yea but contest is a bit different from actually being put into a position of decision making within a project
<JEEB>
contest is where you get told how great you are and possibly receive something. end of story. being put onto a decision making body is kind of in a different ballpark :D
<elenril>
FFmpeg is not a person
<elenril>
being put on a ballot can be stressful for some people
<elenril>
especially since everyone can see the results
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<BBB>
michaelni: I agree they may not all have time to reply before the vote commences. but we can always add the people that confirmed interest, and then afterwards if anyone responds "late", we can have a new vote for them in a little while, right?
<BBB>
I also understand we don't want to have 100s of votes. but one vote now (which was already planned) and another one in a couple of weeks (?) seems not too bad
<michaelni>
BBB, yes
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<cosminaught>
Another problem with the fdk-aac decoder as implemented is that you can't do `ffmpeg -i someinput` and have it work automatically if that input happens to be xhe. Would need to ffprobe first to know (and ffprobe doesn't really pickup xhe properly anyway) and then override the decoder
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<michaelni>
elenril, others is that mail ok with you: https://pastebin.com/bgspU6Ty ? or should i change something before sending ?
<kierank>
quite an demeaning quote
<michaelni>
kierank, :)
<kierank>
not funny
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<michaelni>
heres the quote in question for the record: "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. -- Plato"
<elenril>
michaelni: in the first paragraph, mention what it means - i.e. that GA members can vote
<elenril>
"if you have more the 50%" is vague and not really accurate
<elenril>
a better phrasing is 'if more people are in favor than against'
<courmisch>
well that's actually a real problem. In VideoLAN, if you abstain on a membership request, it's as if you vote no
<elenril>
why is that a problem?
<courmisch>
because it means you can't be neutral, you have to vote yes or no
<elenril>
does videolan also use CIVS?
<courmisch>
and if a lot of members don't vote, then nobody can ever be voted in
<courmisch>
no
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<elenril>
well, the way I'm planning to map this vote onto CIVS is that there'll be a list of candidates and a special 'NOT CHOSEN' option
<courmisch>
I mean it's a problem more like it needs to be clarified, not it's a fatal issue
<elenril>
people who rank higher than NOT CHOSEN are chosen
<elenril>
you can totally express not caring in that system
<Daemon404>
isnt the point of the GA to be current
<Daemon404>
not people missing for 10 years
<elenril>
you are free to express that opinion by voting against adding them to GA
<Daemon404>
assuming we get to vote again
<elenril>
we do
<Daemon404>
rather than endless FUD and french philisophical winging
<elenril>
next vote is scheduled to start on monday
<Daemon404>
on the ML
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<Daemon404>
which vote it this
<elenril>
on adding extra people to GA
<courmisch>
yeah, I agree, lets have Greek and Chinese philosophy instead
<elenril>
i.e. the think we're discussing right now
<Daemon404>
to my knowledge, the problematic parties dont even count the last vote as valid, so any further vote based on the GA will meet the same fate.
<michaelni>
elenril, changes made, ill send the mail after eating a bit if no further big changes are requested otherwise i post a version 3
<durandal_1707>
FFmpeg - where voting takes your rights
<Daemon404>
durandal_1707, bexitmpeg?
<Daemon404>
brexit, even
<durandal_1707>
FFmpeg - where voting gives fake sense of made choices
<bencoh>
isn't that every democracy?
<Daemon404>
belarusmpeg then
<elenril>
ffexit?
<Daemon404>
ffexit(1);
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<courmisch>
ffraise(SIGKILL)
<Daemon404>
ffraise(AVSIGNAL(SIGKILL))
<courmisch>
you mean AVSIGNAL_KILL
<Daemon404>
no that would be too clean
<Daemon404>
see: AVERROR()
<courmisch>
this ffproject sure fflikes to ffreinvent the ffwheel
<courmisch>
ffreminds me of Apache HTTPd
<Daemon404>
ffmpeg has an httpd i think
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<courmisch>
TIL Intel APX
<courmisch>
Totally Not Copying AArch64 Features Into x86
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<courmisch>
- 32 GPRs
<courmisch>
- nondestructive ops
<courmisch>
- push/pop 2 GPRs at a time
<courmisch>
where have I seen this before
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<durandal_1707>
o great thou Leader you are, thoe strongest of Leaders all
<kurosu>
checkasm is very unreliable for benchmarking purposes. The solution in eg dav1d was to increase the number of iterations if benchmarking is requested, but I don't see a way to do it in ffmpeg ?
<kierank>
kurosu: are you sure it's not frequency scaling
<kierank>
or powersaving on your pc
<kierank>
the avx512 nucs have that disabled
<courmisch>
kierank: the benchmarks are ridiculously short
<courmisch>
it's okay if you have an accurate cycle counter, but not so much if you just have a clock
<kurosu>
it could be, albeit I have set to the highest power/performance setting my laptop - which indeed is still a large source of unreliability
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<kurosu>
(and I have other benchmarks that, being longer, do not see the same variance)
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<courmisch>
where did you guys hide all the half-precision DSP codez?
<courmisch>
the RVV supports vector half-precision
<courmisch>
+board
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<durandal_1707>
courmisch: there is only conversion from/to half
<courmisch>
durandal_1707: seems scalar only though?
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<durandal_1707>
courmisch: uses luts
<durandal_1707>
on CPU
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<cone-673>
ffmpeg sunyuechi master:afb967b81e41: af_afir: RISC-V V fcmul_add
<courmisch>
gotta love how gitee.com search matches *any* keyword you git rather than *all*
<JEEB>
:D
<JEEB>
magical ORs
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<ePirat>
anyone has a HAP codec sample file for me?
<ePirat>
the official ones on their website are 404…
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<kurosu>
courmisch: anyway, that add_pref_left or whatever is on x86 4.2x for SSSE3 and 8x for AVX2. And I hadn't relied, and wouldn't rely on checkasm with its L1d-hot data. Usually, much more cumbersome, but I surround a call in a codec using a DSP function, and run it on a file that is several hundreds frames
<kurosu>
Captain obvious, but otherwise, memory loads appear a bit cheaper...
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<cosminaught>
there's a variety of HAP codec samples linked from Github at https://github.com/Vidvox/hap and I clicked on at least a few links and they seem to work