16:57 <stenur> Linux/coreutils su(1) can run commands (different to BSD one -- iirc); using sudo(1) in an .rc script is not necessary

16:57 <jaeger-> Taking another look at FS#1201 - I agree it would be nice to have some info about custom collections/ports overlays in the handbook but as others have said, I feel the wording is too abrasive/aggressive. I will write something similar for review if folks like, with more generic wording

16:58 <SiFuh_> Liberals...

16:59 <jaeger-> Impressing upon new users that CRUX is not a babysitting distribution is all well and good but it's not intended to make them feel bad :P

16:59 <SiFuh_> beerman: did a good a job for years, but he is very busy these days

17:00 <SiFuh_> I say let them in the deep end. They wil find a way

17:01 <SiFuh_> We do have #crux

17:06 <jaeger> Unrelated to that one, I'll close FS#341 if nobody has anything to add to it. cryptsetup support on the ISO has been working well for me in test and on my laptop

17:07 <jaeger> Though I guess it would be smart to write some documentation first.

17:08 <SiFuh_> jaeger: works well. The serpent addition to the kernel was just specifically for serpent encryption.

17:09 <SiFuh_> I have made many crux installs using differnet kinds of encryption and the iso you provide is perfect

17:10 <jaeger> Thanks, appreciate the feedback

17:12 <SiFuh_> If it didn't, I'd have harrassed you further :-P

17:12 <SiFuh_> Is good to have the capability for full disk encryption

17:16 <jaeger> heh

17:17 <jaeger> I'll work on some documentation so we can close that one

17:24 <jaeger> I'll also move dracut from contrib to opt and add it to the ISO

17:27 <SiFuh_> Blindly asking cryptsetup is in opt also?

17:32 <jaeger> It is

17:33 <SiFuh_> All good then

17:35 <jaeger> Is libvdpau required anymore for anything other than the libva-vdpau-driver port?

19:02 <stenur> Interesting. I seem to have libvdpau for nothing.

21:19 <beerman> jaeger: wrt FS#1201 - that would be great! #341 should be good to go imo, it seems to have proven to be a reliable solution. about libvdpau: some software can still make use of it, e.g. mpv, gstreamer, ffmpeg, kodi.. what value it still holds i haven't evaluated myself

21:23 <jaeger> livdpau is included on the ISO but not sure it's required anymore... it messes with mesa's footprint and breaks the automated build. Haven't looked deeper yet

21:27 <beerman> wrt footprints - i'd still agree on making them not fail anything, if anything, write out a warning for MISSING, a simple info for NEW

21:38 <beerman> and in regards to mesa it should only produce new files, so no serious issue. I think in the past we defaulted to it, i removed it when i made the wayland changes

21:39 <beerman> https://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/xorg.git;a=blobdiff;f=mesa/Pkgfile;h=34a43a1b2ff7bcc9c3ff5a4a38b6dea369e27455;hp=0fa43f1ad3840a3cdc6ef9aeb613009fcfb88dbd;hb=a941377dae1002c483e5e044b4b1aaba58ebc7bb;hpb=1b1289ba1e10c2d66db608b70e38778caf68e073

21:40 <beerman> jaeger: crazy idea here, but how do you feel on changing the default xorg environment to a default wayland? it should safe us a few packages on the iso

22:19 <jaeger> yeah, it's only new files for mesa, just stops the automation

22:21 <jaeger> Not sure with regards to the default being wayland... I know in the past there were some troubles getting wayland and x11 stuff to coexist peacefully, for example if you wanted to run a wayland desktop but also play games with wine or steam... but I have no idea what that looks like now

22:21 <beerman> looks perfect now

22:22 <beerman> steam is the actual only reason that holds me back on my desktop to run pure wayland

22:22 <beerman> gog games however might do with out for example

22:22 <beerman> steam proton works fine here, i have wine-staging installed

22:23 <beerman> xwayland works flawlessly over here. not so much if you demand to have a conky overlay floating somewhere in the background

22:35 <stenur> Oh. Then i have libvdpau not for nothing!

22:36 <stenur> But it would be nice if that would be mentioned in README then. Now i wonder where i got the information from that having libvdpau would make sense.

22:36 <stenur> Anyhow GL vdpau ends up being used by my X i would say: intel(0): [DRI2] VDPAU driver: va_gl

22:37 <jaeger> stenur: what do you have installed that actually links with the lib?

22:37 <stenur> Nothing i think. But i have it installed and mesa gives me this, no?

22:37 <jaeger> I wonder if it's actually in use or just a notification that it's available

22:39 <stenur> hm. not in /usr/lib/dri/*.so|grep vdp

22:41 <stenur> /usr/lib/libavcodec.so, /usr/lib/libavdevice.so and more, /usr/lib/libpostproc.so, /usr/lib/libswresample.so, /usr/lib/libswscale.so

22:41 <jaeger> one my HTPC system both mpv and ffmpeg link against it

22:42 <stenur> ffmpeg, yes. Have not mpv.

22:42 <stenur> Yes, sorry for the noise. ffmpeg.

22:44 <jaeger> I'll try some test installs without libvdpau at some point

22:54 <beerman> jaeger: any chance that you tried the run symlink yet? I have had zero problems and I have switched every install i have running a long time ago now

22:55 <beerman> it did happen to fix obscure errors people had with docker on #crux in the past and it makes perfect sense that it does - i want to implement that to core/filesystem in 3.7 if jue and romster agree as well

22:55 <jaeger> I have not tested it yet but I have no objection. Should be ok, I think

22:57 <beerman> perfect. and wayland as the default: i don't say we have to do it, it's just an idea because iso size has been a topic in the past

22:59 <beerman> we might just want to think about what we would actually need to say that this is a sane new default desktop to "offer" on the install disk

23:00 <beerman> firefox would run, there is good terminal choices available with alacritty and foot, where foot is a pure wayland based terminal, alacritty works on both

23:02 <beerman> i haven't used thunderbird in ages but suspect that'll do, libreoffice, gimp, inkscape does.. i dunno :) it's easier to list what doesn't run nowadays (at least for me with amdgpu or intel i915 i believe)

23:03 <beerman> i'd really be interested if you'd get it to run with nvidia and in which state it is. it should be around the corner..