adam12 changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules: https://ruby-community.com | Ruby 3.2.2, 3.1.4, 3.0.6, 2.7.8: https://www.ruby-lang.org | Paste 4+ lines to: https://gist.github.com | Books: https://t.ly/9ua4 | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/ruby/
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<johnjaye> what's a good guide to learning ruby? the site recommends a book called Ruby Essentials
<johnjaye> but i also see some websites like ruby-guides
<llua> def not anything in the channel topic
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<rapha> lol
<rapha> anyhow johnjaye just work through all four pages of https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/ and then start doing whatever you wanted to do while keeping https://rubyapi.org/ handy i guess
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<ox1eef_> The lib/, bin/, etc layout works great for libraries. But I think it has its limits when you are distributing a "program". And for that I usually add libexec/ libdata/, and share/ in addition to lib/ & bin/.
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<Momentum> are there any ruby notebook like environments? something like literate programming and whether ruby is actually good for this
<ox1eef_> Momentum: What do you mean by a ruby notebook environment
<Momentum> morning ox1eef_, i was actually thinking something like jupyter with interactive ruby instead of python i guess
<ox1eef_> Ah I don't know what that is so I can't speak to that.
<Momentum> i think jupyter supports julia too but not sure about ruby
<ox1eef_> I don't think Ruby has something similar. But at one time, it had 'Shoes' and that looks kind of - vaguely - similar.
<Momentum> is it discontinued?
<Momentum> this looks more like a GUI framework i guess
<ox1eef_> No commits since 2020 afaict. https://github.com/shoes
<ox1eef_> GUI framework - yeah, and also intended to be something that can introduce people to programming in a friendly environment.
<Momentum> i think this is what i'm looking for https://github.com/SciRuby
<ox1eef_> :+1:
<Momentum> the question now i guess is whether these are just as reliable as python's alternatives :D
<Momentum> probably not
<ox1eef_> What's the story behind it ? I would probably recommend newcomers to pick up Python tbh.
<Momentum> ruby and python kinda fall on the same category of language to me, i would like to just exclusively use one of them to maintain proficiency
<ox1eef_> I agree. They're very similar as languages. But Python has - no pun intended - the Momentum right now.
<Momentum> yeah
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<adam12> llua: Is there something missing from the book list in the channel topic?
<johnjaye> adam12: well sort of. i asked about books and he replied with sarcasm that, well don't look in the topic. lol
<adam12> johnjaye: Oooh. I figured there might have been a /s lost.
<adam12> tbh, I totally forgot there was a list of books in the topic.
<adam12> It's actually a great list. I didn't realize Brandon was maintaining one.
<johnjaye> yes you lose so much through text i just stopped being sarcastic online. unless memes.
<johnjaye> ironically it is missing one though. https://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Ruby_Essentials
<johnjaye> this was linked off the ruby-lang.org
<adam12> Never heard of it. Have you read it?
<johnjaye> there's 2 more on here: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/
<johnjaye> i'm reading it right now!
<adam12> johnjaye: The price is right.
<johnjaye> or rather as soon as I get a shower and such.
<adam12> johnjaye: I'd be curious what you think of it. I find most Ruby books are just a rehash of the core docs.
<johnjaye> there's several links on that page that mention core. which one do you mean
<johnjaye> ok maybe just one. the core reference guide http://www.ruby-doc.org/core
<adam12> johnjaye: I don't have a specific example because it's been so long since I read them, but more specifically, there's only a few that I felt deviated from what's an Array, whats a Hash, etc.
<adam12> Which is fine, but we really only needed one of those (it was the Pickaxe from ~ 2003 or Matz's original book)
<adam12> Polished Ruby took an interesting approach to talk about performance optimizations, some useful patterns (the Plugin one that Sequel uses), and some other pieces. Ruby under a Microscope did deep dive into internals, which was nice. etc.
<johnjaye> oh i see it now.
<adam12> Refactoring Ruby was a nice rewrite of the original Refactoring book (which used Java).
<johnjaye> very confusing. i don't think either the topic list or the one at ruby-lang mentions this boook
<johnjaye> The Ruby Programming Language: Everything You Need to Know
<johnjaye> even though it's written by matz himself...
<adam12> It might be too out of date? I'll be honest I've never read it, and I own a lot of Ruby books. I feel like it was pre Ruby 1.8.. which even then was pickaxe era.
<adam12> I wonder how much of it still holds true.
<johnjaye> there are "eras" in ruby?
<adam12> Oh, nevermind. I looked at the cover and it is a 1.8 and 1.9 book.
<johnjaye> what happened in 1.8
<adam12> 1.8 to 1.9 was a huge change, IIRC.
<adam12> A lot of people stayed on 1.8.6 or whatever for _ages_. In some ways it was Ruby's Python 2->3 (tho we kind of have our own with keyword separation).
<johnjaye> i was going to mention that. this google result tells me that 1.9 broke rails
<johnjaye> but doesn't say how
<adam12> 1.8 used Matz's runtime, which was an interpreter.
<johnjaye> at least in the python2->3 thing there was an obvious justification, i.e. unicode
<adam12> 1.9 shipped with YARV I think, which converted to bytecode and then executed in a virtual machine.
<johnjaye> an interpreter is not the same as a bytecoded machine?
<adam12> johnjaye: No. The original one just did a single pass I believe, running it as it evaluated.
<adam12> johnjaye: 1.9 introduced a multiple pass with parse with a VM (IIRC it's stack based).
<adam12> So 1.9 would create an AST, transate late that to bytecode, then evaluate.
<johnjaye> oh ok
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<bhaak> 1.9 did also introduce the unicode support.
<bhaak> back in the day I though that the 1.8 to 1.9 transition was poorly handled but then I didn't know that 10 years after that, python2 vs python3 would still be a thing!
<bhaak> FWIW, python2 was only EOL on January 1st 2020!
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<joto> I feel like I am writing the following code a bit too much like I used to in bloated languages. Is there a more concise way to do it in Ruby?
<joto> if regio.nil? && school.nil?
<joto> true
<joto> end
<joto> else
<joto> false
<Doc_X> true if if regio.nil? && school.nil?; false
<Doc_X> s/if if/if
<joto> cool, I haven't seend that ; syntax before
<Doc_X> you can do that on two lines, but using ';' means you can do it on a single line.
<joto> ah right. I'll keep it in mind as to not spam this channel :)
<weaksauc_> joto regio.nil? && school.nil? returns true and false by itself
<joto> oh right!
<joto> awesome :-)
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<johnjaye> yeah i was surprised the python2/3 thing even happened.
<johnjaye> dennis ritchie mentioned his unwillingness to change the precedence of & in c and he only had a few dozen files in existence at the time.
<johnjaye> now imagine hundreds or thousands of people need to update their code. not going to happen
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<ox1eef_> Ruby 1.9 broke backwards compatibility.
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<KOTP> `regio.nil? && schoo.nil?` all on one line.
<KOTP> Sorry, what joto said!
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<joto> no problem KOTP. thanks for confirming :) it was weaksauc_ who proposed it
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<KOTP> Indeed.
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