01:31 <aruhier> I should avoid opening issues at 3am…

01:31 <aruhier> I'm wondering where is the split between what the layout should handle and what river itself should handle

01:31 <aruhier> my feature request is about having directions for the focus_view

01:31 <aruhier> but should it be to river to handle that or the layout?

01:43 <leon-p> aruhier: focus operations other than next / previous are technically possible, but massively complicated

01:43 <leon-p> so I see no chance for your feature request

01:47 <leon-p> as far as what river does and what the layout generator does: The only thing caring about where windows are placed is the layout generator.

01:47 <leon-p> for river itself windows are just a list

01:47 <leon-p> that is on purpose

01:51 <leon-p> there are two possible ways to give river spacial awareness, meaning being able to focus up / down / left / right. The simple one is checking for which view is next to another, which will have bad results for complex layouts. The complex one is giving river more info on the layout, which would seriously complicate the layout protocol.

01:51 <leon-p> I consider both those approaches to be bad ones

01:54 <leon-p> you could also let the layout generator itself decide which view to focus, but that would be an overstep of what layout generators are supposed to be. And it would probably require giving them a better awareness of the window list, which we avoided on purpose in the current protocol

01:54 <leon-p> in short: If you want to use spatial navigation, use sway

11:11 <aruhier> I'll answer once leon-p reconnects, but even if I understand the limitation in river, I don't really get why there's this wish of limiting so much the layout protocol

11:12 <aruhier> xorg also stores its windows in a list, but a wm can maintain its internal state to do the layout it wants

11:13 <aruhier> I mean with this limitation, I don't really see the purpose of having a customisable layout, as this behavior will pretty much only fit a layout with a stack

11:13 <aruhier> (so dwm like)

12:50 <leon-p> aruhier: (Saw your messages on the log) The purpose of limiting the functionality of the layout protocol is to keep things simple

12:51 <leon-p> you strongly underestimate how much complexity your proposal requires

12:51 <aruhier> leon-p: I also understand

12:52 <aruhier> no I know, but at this point, if there's too much complexity involved with having a customisable layout, why not merging back rivertile in river and get rid of this protocol?

12:53 <leon-p> and yes, river is designed for dwm-esque layouts. There are still infinite variations of those, so custom layout still make sense

12:53 <aruhier> hmm, ok I see

12:54 <aruhier> and to answer to your "use sway", that's my major critic about sway, I don't like its wm and find it super rigid

12:54 <aruhier> things I liked with river and be able to split the layout from the compositor

12:54 <leon-p> and even if we integrated the layouts back into river, it still would require some kind of system to determine which window is left / right / above / beneath another one, which is not trivial

12:55 <leon-p> well, with river you also have rigid window management. You have a list of windows you can traverse in two directions. That's it.

12:55 <aruhier> yeah it wasn't really linked with the spatial navigation

12:56 <aruhier> leon-p: yep, I just misunderstood the purpose of the compositor

12:56 <leon-p> layout generators are not window managers.

12:57 <aruhier> yeah, that's my mistake, I misunderstood that

12:58 <aruhier> which is fine, just river as it is right now (and mostly the vision of it) is not for me I think, so I'll see which solutions I have

12:59 <travankor> write your own compositor :p

12:59 <aruhier> (for the moment on wayland, it seems that I don't have any that is close enough to bspwm, but I'll see :D)

13:00 <aruhier> travankor: maybe not my own but I was wondering if forking something existing could do it

13:01 <travankor> you can write plugins for wayfire if you don't want to write everything

13:02 <aruhier> I looked at changing the behavior of sway's wm but a lot of stuff are relying on its current layout

13:02 <travankor> aruhier: take a look https://github.com/javyre/swayfire

13:02 <travankor> might give pointers on what you want to accomplish

13:03 <aruhier> ha nice

13:03 <aruhier> does it seem like a hack at usage or it's pretty well integrated?

13:04 <aruhier> by that I mean does it seem like a tiling plugin in gnome-shell or wayfire allows to have a good tiling system?

13:04 <aruhier> (sorry if I'm slowly moving out of topic, btw)

13:08 <travankor> considering gnome-shell extensions run in javascript, I would say a lot better than gnome

13:08 <travankor> but i didn't use it, so i can't see much else

13:09 <aruhier> well, I'll try swayfire to see how it runs and works and ask on their irc channel

13:09 <aruhier> travankor: yeah my question was more like : is the integrated wm is gonna fight against the plugin, which was pretty much my feeling when I tried a tiling wm plugin on gnome

13:10 <aruhier> (a while ago, I think it improved a bit)

13:10 <travankor> no, it should be native

13:11 <aruhier> cool

13:15 <aruhier> thanks a lot for your help, travankor, I knew a little bit about wayfire but I didn't know that it has this plugins system

13:21 <travankor> np, if you have problems with your plugin you should ask in their channel

14:28 <crr> realrasengan: *gasp* are you rasengan

17:29 <ifreund> wow, so freenode is even more hostile than I thought

17:30 <ifreund> apparently because I had the string "libera" in the topic of the old #river on freenode they took over the channel on me and changed the topic

17:30 <ifreund> also I get kicked for saying libera

17:31 <dnkl> ifreund: me too. Was de-op:ed and de-voiced

17:31 <dnkl> And just about everyone else... :/

17:31 <ifreund> very glad we got out so quick

17:31 <ifreund> I was offline most of yesterday so I guess I missed this happening

17:37 <dnkl> ifreund: in case you haven't seen already: https://mastodon.sdf.org/@kline/106299403921451814

17:40 <ifreund> thanks, I hadn't

17:40 <ifreund> that confirms that it was network-wide then

17:40 <ifreund> great way to destroy any last shred of credibility they had

17:42 <dnkl> My thoughts exactly

19:06 <novakane> also this nice article... https://freenode.net/news/for-foss