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<mfny>
Hi all
<mfny>
wondering if anyone here has eperciance with the Sifive HiFive Unmatched board at all ?
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<drmpeg>
mfny: I have one.
<palmer>
mfny: should be a bunch of people who do, are you looking for anything specific?
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<mfny>
I am potentially looking to buy one. And have some questions like what would I require in addition to the board to get it working exactly ? What GPUs are supported ? and Aside from Linux support is there any BSD support of any kind ?
<palmer>
there's an old list on the kickstarter, but it's essenially just a case/PSU: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive-unmatched . We had good luck with AMD cards, the system is so slow even fairly old stuff was fast enough that the GPU wasn't a bottleneck. IDK about BSD ;)
<q66>
radeon/amdgpu largely works
<q66>
the board is slow as hell though
<palmer>
ya, anything that has decent upstream support should be fine. It's so slow it doesn't even really matter what GPU you have, though ;)
<Tenkawa>
palmer: even if we can get this Star64 mainline working I'm worried the x1 lane is still going to be its weakness too in that regard....
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<mfny>
which AMD cards in particular would be recommended ?
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<drewfustini>
conchuod: i'll post the current th1520 clk series today. It does work for me with a "real" clock property for mmc now. there are some things that still need to be improved but i will post today so its not just hidden away in my personal repo.
<smaeul>
mfny: depends on your requirements. Radeon RX 550 or Radeon RX 6400 are relatively inexpensive and don't require external power
<gurki>
is there any point in plugging a gpu in there? like ... how bad is it, really?
<davidlt>
You can watch 4K movies with it
<gurki>
thats .. the gpu doing all the work with hw decoding
<Tenkawa>
does the Unmatched come with a Imagination on it?
<mfny>
does HD 6000 work out of box also ?
<davidlt>
Yeah, GPU decoding it, but user experience is fine
<gurki>
ah. the latter was where im getting at
<davidlt>
browser experience is kinda slow, that's annoying
<davidlt>
I would advice that for JIRA :)
<Tenkawa>
davidlt: nice headless server eh?
<Tenkawa>
git box
<davidlt>
I would prefer more horse power on my servers
<davidlt>
large git repo checkout/processing is kinda slow especially if there is no hw rng.
<Tenkawa>
Yeah.. most of my "copilers" all have 8 cores or more
<Tenkawa>
er compilers
<Tenkawa>
some 12-16
<drmpeg>
mnfy: Have you looked at the StarFive VisionFive 2? That's what most folks are using these days.
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<drmpeg>
Much cheaper for similar performance.
<smaeul>
mfny: probably. I think most testing is done with the `amdgpu` kernel driver, but `radeon` probably works too
<smaeul>
looks like the Milk-V Pioneer ships with R5 230, which is also Terascale, so that suggests it will be fine
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<mfny>
drmpeg: i looked into the StarFive VisionFive 2, is it really similar performance to the Unmatched ? i note that GPU drivers are not there yet tho acording to what ive found ..
<q66>
it's supposedly a little faster
<q66>
but not by much since it's effectively the same cores
<q66>
still raspberry pi 3 tier
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<drmpeg>
Yeah, I guess you have to use some vendor kernel for the GPU.
<drmpeg>
I have a VF2, but I never really did much with it.
<drmpeg>
The Unmatched will run a completely vanilla kernel.
<q66>
vendor kernel and proprietary userland, and a distro that can support said proprietary userland
<mfny>
so if i want the most OS support and GPU support the unmatched would be the choice ?
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<drmpeg>
My use case is Linux kernel testing. I use it headless and do testing for linux-stable and the latest kernel.
<drmpeg>
I can build and run 5.15.x, 6.1.x, 6.6.x LTS kernels no problem. 5.15.x requires a few patches, but 6.1.x and later require none.
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<drmpeg>
And I just run Ubuntu.
<drmpeg>
I'll probably load 24.04 pretty soon.
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<palmer>
IIUC the main reason VF2 needs that vendor kernel is for the workaround for their PCIe bugs, their "just slow down a bit" stuff is unlikely to land upstream so someone would need to figure it out
<Stat_headcrabed>
Maybe we should just disable FPU for those IPs
<Stat_headcrabed>
Windows was doing the same
<Tenkawa>
heheheh yep
<Tenkawa>
they had to
<Tenkawa>
lol
<Stat_headcrabed>
Thankfully it is fixed on C920v2 and C908
<conchuod>
Stat_headcrabed: IIRC I did mention disabling the FPU on those systems to Palmer in November - but the impact would be pretty bad, seeing as you'd need a userspace that doesn't use the FPU.
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<Stat_headcrabed>
Maybe a fallback to software FP using glibc?
<sorear>
Stat_headcrabed: how do you observe the issue with openblas? does openblas use the exception flags?
<Tenkawa>
conchuod: yeah is there even a build of Debian/Ubuntu anymore without FPU?
<Stat_headcrabed>
is it possible?
<sorear>
glibc no, bbl maybe
<Tenkawa>
musl even needs it too right?
<conchuod>
bbl being berkley boot loader sorear ?
<Tenkawa>
although I doubt musl is used in riscv yet
<sorear>
the "userspace" softfloat code lives in libgcc/compiler-rt and it's already supported in both for glibc, musl, and uclibc targets
<Tenkawa>
oh...
<conchuod>
"Are eswin guys working on mainlining that p550 chip?" I've yet to see a patch for it, but it is also not yet released. I'd be surprised tbh if someone like Samuel got one that he'd not end up adding support.
<Stat_headcrabed>
sorear: not me, but T-head has a contest to college students to fix that openblas problem
<Stat_headcrabed>
emmmm
<sorear>
glibc has a copy of the softfloat code but I don't really understand when it's used
<sorear>
i can personally confirm that uclibc and musl targets work fine with just the libgcc support
<sorear>
it's also possible to emulate floating point using the illegal instruction handler; this is a standard feature of bbl (the "berkeley boot loader" even though it does no actual boot loading) and was widely used in the 2010s
<Stat_headcrabed>
Maybe porting that to opensbi?
<conchuod>
I don't think those systems use bbl though, right? So it'd be the SBI implementations job I guess.
<Stat_headcrabed>
Just like unaligned access on U74?
<sorear>
the opensbi maintainers explicitly vetoed that years ago
<conchuod>
sorear: not as if t-head use upstream opensbi anyway :)
<Stat_headcrabed>
Oh
<conchuod>
But ye, clearly not a solution that'd work for anything other than their vector stack if it was kept in their opensbi tree given that tree's other problems
<Stat_headcrabed>
Emmm
<sorear>
Stat_headcrabed: do you have a link for the openblas thing? all I can find is https://github.com/OpenMathLib/OpenBLAS/issues/3506 and that's a "user attempted to configure openblas to use RVV 1.0 on a chip that doesn't support RVV 1.0" issue not a float errata issue
<sorear>
if you need to emulate floating point on a c906 (this is not confirmed to be a real issue for typical use, see above) it's a little bit more complicated than just "use bbl" or "copy bbl logic into opensbi" because you need floating point instructions to generate exceptions.
<sorear>
the c906 doesn't implement writable misa.F, unlike sifive cores, so the only way to do that is to set mstatus.FS = Off. but now whatever kernel you're using needs to have a "virtual sstatus.FS"
<Stat_headcrabed>
sorear: Sorry I can't find that, but I'm 100% sure it exists
<sorear>
if you find anything, let us know
<Stat_headcrabed>
ok
<Stat_headcrabed>
Btw
<Stat_headcrabed>
Seems C906 doesn't completely support double precision on it's rvv implementation
<Stat_headcrabed>
According to OpenBLAS readme
<palmer>
is it the same rounding bugs as the scalar stuff, or something new?
<Stat_headcrabed>
Possibly something new
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<gurki>
so is it "not supported" or "broken"?
<sorear>
by "rounding bugs" do you mean "FE_UNDERFLOW flag setting bugs" or something more generally applicable?
<palmer>
I forget the exact bug, just those that showed up on the glibc lists
<palmer>
I'm not really an FP guy, so I just sort of put all these "it does't quite compute what IEEE says it should" bugs in the same bin ;)
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