08:36 <thepicolispestpi> (format (current-output-port) "Hi, how is performance compared to Guile or Chez Scheme?")

08:57 <abu[m]> Hi thepicolispestpi, looks like you must try yourself ☺

09:12 <abu[m]> It all depends on *what* you want to test. If it comes to startup speed, PicoLisp is probably unbeatable.

09:23 <beneroth> already left :/

09:25 <abu[m]> Oh, I see. This is not reliably indicated in the matrix bridge

09:25 <beneroth> abu[m], yeah that's a reason for me not to use matrix :P

09:26 <beneroth> claiming to support all kind of chat protocols while only handling the bare minimum.. is not supporting those protocols, I think :)

09:26 <abu[m]> Yes, stupid question. But it is something even newbees understand.

09:26 <beneroth> can't get easier than IRC, so if even that fails, I wonder how well it works with the more involved protocols

09:27 <beneroth> abu[m], the developer startup time might be higher with picolisp xD

09:27 <beneroth> dunno

09:28 <beneroth> not because picolisp is complicated, but because it is so simple.

09:29 <abu[m]> We know that, but it is hard to see before you try it.

09:39 <beneroth> T

11:13 <aw-> picolisp was sooooooo difficult to learn

11:13 <aw-> i knew nothing about Lisp

11:14 <aw-> Regenaxer was extremely helpful here in the chat

11:14 <aw-> practically holding my hand until I could get some things working

11:14 <aw-> and very patient

11:14 <aw-> thank you

11:15 <aw-> (although I probably still know nothing about Lisp haha)

11:15 <aw-> at least I don't make the repl segfault anymore ;)

11:18 <abu[m]> Thanks for the feedback! :)

11:19 <abu[m]> Would you say PicoLisp was especially difficult to learn (compared to other langs you've learned)?

11:23 <aw-> it was easier than Rust

11:24 <abu[m]> ☺

11:24 <aw-> and it kept getting easier as I learned more how things worked

11:24 <aw-> Rust gets more and more difficult as you learn

11:25 <aw-> because they try to enforce a strict way of programming,which requires to learn the more difficult concepts of the language

11:25 <abu[m]> Good, so this is what I hoped. Once understood, the simplicity is making it useful

11:25 <aw-> but with PicoLisp I noticed things were just getting easier to write and I could become productive very quickly

11:27 <aw-> i tried learning CL and Racket before PicoLisp, but they weren't for me

11:27 <aw-> PicoLisp was just so tiny and easy to install, easy to run, easy to hack things up and then build from there

11:27 <abu[m]> Mission accomplished ☺

11:28 <aw-> i think Ruby had the same effect for me. Ruby was also very easy to learn and become proficient.

11:29 <aw-> the problem with Ruby was the language was a moving target. My code would never run after updating the language, too many changes to "fix" my code - everything broke it took forever to upgrade. And they pushed new breaking changes every few months.

11:30 <aw-> i have code written initially for picolisp 32-bit that still works perfectly in pil21

11:30 <aw-> but yes, as a non-Lisper starting with PicoLisp i must admit it was difficult to wrap my head around

11:30 <aw-> perhaps not the fault of PicoLisp

11:33 <beneroth> I had a similar experience, but my suspicion (and impression here in the community) is that picolisp is probably harder to learn for lispers than non-lispers, because they take more concepts for granted which don't matter in picolisp.

11:35 <beneroth> before picolisp I also tried Ruby and Ruby on Rails, which I found nice to learn but too much conventions and magic which was not transparent and not changeable (without big chunks of the whole stack).

11:36 <abu[m]> I got this feeling too. So I wanted to point this out on the start page of picolisp.com

11:36 <beneroth> once you get a good reading understanding in picolisp, you can nearly at all implementations and understand them. that is really nice in picolisp.

11:36 <abu[m]> (I mean hard for Lispers)

11:37 <beneroth> s/you can nearly at all/you can check out the

11:38 <beneroth> at the beginning I came to the point where I could create a webapp with the database, but not necessarily debug or maintain them. I've told Regenaxer, he told me "I'll help you, just carry on" and so it was :-)