teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features or report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/openscad | don't ask to ask
<InPhase> The solution mapping for "this was automatically run, and I needed it" is "run it where you need it". This should always work as a mapping.
<JakeSays> is there a way to force rendering when exporting an stl?
<InPhase> I think some of the resistance might be that he's not sure where and when the values are actually evaluated in that library. But, I think that goes to the core of the issue. The magic running across the use boundary, including includes, is really hard to keep track of.
<InPhase> JakeSays: You're supposed to hit render first.
<InPhase> JakeSays: The buttons are right next to each other. :)
<JakeSays> InPhase: no, i'm forced to hit render first. i would prefer it to do it for me.
<JakeSays> it really doesn't make much sense to me to have it as two separate steps.
<dalias> that always annoyed me too but i kinda like it as 2 steps
<dalias> since a click that opens a dialog box should respond *immediately*
<InPhase> JakeSays: Well render can be very expensive and take a very long time, so it's unpleasant to get a surprise render when you're not expecting it.
<JakeSays> dalias: yes, and then do the rendering after the dialog interaction
<dalias> and auto-rendering would mean it wouldn't, but would instead asynchronously pop up a dialog in front of whatever i was doing a minute or two later after the render finished
<dalias> hmm, that could work
<InPhase> JakeSays: Also we don't have great support in place for canceling a render in progress, so until we do, it's best to keep render explicit.
<dalias> but it would be a nontrivial change to how the program works
<InPhase> JakeSays: Once full cancelation support is in place, I think what you're saying would make a decent option or default behavior.
<dalias> it would also interact weirdly with overwriting files
<JakeSays> InPhase: it doesn't even have to be default. i just want the option.
<dalias> *nod*
<dalias> i think it's a good goal to have
<dalias> but has some aspects that make it messy to do well
<InPhase> JakeSays: I would not oppose it as an option.
<InPhase> JakeSays: As long as it defaults to off for now, for the sake of new users.
<JakeSays> yeah, it could always default to off. that doesn't matter to me.
<JakeSays> i might go add an option for my own sanity.
<InPhase> Cancelation support is an obvious important feature add, it just proves to be a little tricky with how the libraries work.
<dalias> move the cache to disk/tempfiles instead of memory and let openscad processes share it
<JakeSays> i can live without cancelation for the moment
<dalias> then you can just shell out to command line openscad to render/export
<InPhase> I live without cancelation because I edit in vim. :)
<dalias> and kill(2) it to cancel
<JakeSays> InPhase: vscode here
<InPhase> But it must result in great suffering for the people who work in the internal editor.
<JakeSays> yeah the internal editor could use some serious love
<dalias> yeah i dont use the internal editor at all
<InPhase> It did get some great improvements over the last 2 years.
<JakeSays> one thing that is needed is a language server to support intellisense
<InPhase> But... Still not vim.
<InPhase> Maybe we should try embedding neovim in there or something.
<InPhase> (As an option.)
<JakeSays> a language server could be used from any editor
<JakeSays> my use of vim is limited to visudo
<teepee> there is already a language server PR, hopefully that's going to continue at some point
<JakeSays> teepee: do you know which pr it is?
<JakeSays> ah. found it
<JakeSays> looks like it's just the client
<JakeSays> maybe not, but it's implemented in the gui.
<JakeSays> i'd want to extract the parser
<teepee> it is supposed to run as server instance as language server
<teepee> not a client
<JakeSays> it shouldn't be a part of the main app.
<teepee> there is no reasonable alternative with the available dev power
<teepee> also it does not really matter much
<JakeSays> where is the compiler, or is it just the parser?
<teepee> no compiler
<JakeSays> so is the ast executed directly?
<teepee> evaluated and transformed into a CSG tree
<teepee> no execution either :)
<JakeSays> ok evaluated. same thing.
<JakeSays> i suppose all the semantic analysis takes place during evaluation?
<teepee> there isn't all that much in that regard, but in a sense, yes, I suppose
<JakeSays> in the language server there's a function being called, compileDocument. do you know where that is?
<teepee> I think that's mostly the parser call
<teepee> names are hard :)
<JakeSays> and it only happens when someone presses preview?
<teepee> the CSG tree is shown via OpenCSG, so not all geometry is calculated, only that part for which no "tricks" for displaying exist like minkowski, hull, ...
<JakeSays> i'm trying to understand the relationship between the lsp and that 'compileDocument' function call. it looks like the lsp will only be updated manually?
<teepee> no, the lsp client sends the document to parse
<teepee> at least that's what I remember from the discussions
<teepee> and I'm off to bed for today :)
<JakeSays> ok. thanks for the info:)
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<Jack21> is it intended that the alt+Arrow (windows) to change values is not working to increase to the left? (x=10 ⇒ x=100)
<teepee> ´no idea
<Jack21> it was working in 2019 but not 2021
<teepee> maybe it was changed with the new mouse support, I don't have 2019 around
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<Jack21> bit annoying as you need to press 10× to get higher values
<Jack21> so if you had 10 and lower it - you can't go back
<Jack21> same with scroll so if you put the cursor on a higher digit you can go 10 20 but if you are down to 0 you only can go 1 2
<Jack21> also because leading 0 will be removed so 000 can count 100 200 but will be 0 when reaching 0
<Jack21> so when you go from 100 to -100 in steps of 10 this is broken at 0
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<gbruno> [github] t-paul locked issue #3400 (Allow OpenSCAD to open and write out text files). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/3400
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<teepee> yeah, I've seen that
<teepee> as far as OpenSCAD is concerned, they are dead now :)
<InPhase> Well... That's ridiculously long. I don't think we need to buy into that.
<teepee> that is extended support tho, I think you'll get that only when paying
<InPhase> Ok.
<InPhase> That's fine then. They can collect some extra money to help subsidize Linux development.
<InPhase> It's only frustrating if you end up working for a company that refuses to upgrade from their antiquated server versions. :)
<teepee> hmm, there's some sort of "free plan for up to 3 machines"
<teepee> anyway, it's not compiling anymore on OBS and I dropped the repo
<teepee> and I can't get Travis to work which was the only one with 16.04 still running
<teepee> (and the main readme claims c++17 ;-)
<InPhase> I think it's fair to just say that people can continue using the old versions built for that, or try to compile themselves.
<teepee> yeah, I think the build issue is just a missing header file, but I did not look closely
<teepee> oldest on OBS is now 18.04
<teepee> right, the PPA also goes back to 18.04 for the 2021.01 release
<teepee> lol, "Starship 2021 Official Design Changes – The Holy Grail Of Rockets!" - what's wrong with those lemmings? when Elon sneezes, they jump from bridges?
<teepee> but I guess it brings in the good youtube money
<InPhase> teepee: I'm actually pretty excited about Starship as a technological evolution. But I guess not excited enough to have seen that video yet. :)
<InPhase> teepee: On another topic, is it correct that you haven't started any work on #782, the recomputing issue that we discussed? I'm feeling increasingly motivated to try to carve out some evening time to hack away at that.
<InPhase> I feel like there's a chance it's not even that hard to fix at that point, mostly just requiring tracing out where it happens, removing that, and instead adding in a single call.
<teepee> no I have not started, but I would like to understand a bit more why this happens
<teepee> and I'm not against the starship stuff in general, but the unreflecting hype is concerning
<InPhase> I think I have a pretty good mental model for how it's happening, I just don't know where yet.
<InPhase> But I've danced around a deep dive into those sections of the code. This could help fix that. :)
<teepee> I know only part of it, specifically the context stacking, but not so much the module instantiation part
<InPhase> If I sort it out I'll be happy to explain it.
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<Scopeuk> teepee i think i'm with you on spacex. I like a lot of what they are achieving but the cultish following arround elon musk is deeply off-putting. Particularly as they still make most of their money lobbing military recon satilites into orbit
<ndnihil> most, if not all, of humanities major advances were driven by or funded by the military industrial complex
<ndnihil> war is the ultimate motivator
<ndnihil> not exactly a pleasant thought, but it's the reality of it
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<Scopeuk> agreed it is na unpleasent reality of our past as a species, ones has to hope that we can find otherways to push things forwards as time moves forwards
<Scopeuk> things need not necessarily procced as per the handbook of the past
<Scopeuk> but to quote wicked "Where I come from everyone knows the best way to bring folks together is to give them a really good enemy"
<Scopeuk> people are easily driven by fear
<Scopeuk> any way enough bring down. how did the open flexture bug hunting go
<ndnihil> who is wicked?
<Scopeuk> its a musical adn the quote is from one of the charachters
<Scopeuk> I dare say it originated elsewhere however
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<ndnihil> eh, I generally dont base my philosophy around entertainment driven sources
<ndnihil> particularly musicals
<ndnihil> not a fan
<Scopeuk> fair enough. the quote is more an agreement of the words that any merit in its source
<t4nk_freenode> I just remade a part from openscad in freecad.. 15 lines of code in openscad... vs a trillion operations in freecad
<t4nk_freenode> and those 15 lines are bad code too, lol
<t4nk_freenode> for basic things it is just so much more easy
<t4nk_freenode> wouldn't want to 3d print one of my standard openscad designs and give it to a kid as a toy though
<t4nk_freenode> ... they'd be cut up like a freshly Mafia'ized victim
<teepee> more minkowski!!!1!
<t4nk_freenode> hehe
<teepee> but yeah, there's some opportunity there
<t4nk_freenode> well, frankly,... they wouldn't be kids anymore ... once the minkowski has completed
<ndnihil> I 3d print stuff for my kid all the time
<ndnihil> almost all done in openscad
<t4nk_freenode> that's why I said.. one of MY designs ;)
<t4nk_freenode> heck... I'm cutup beyond recognition myself hehe
<ndnihil> at the rate he breaks things, having a full suite of fabrication tools is a necessity
<teepee> I'm not using the 3d prints for cutting, I have putty knifes for that ;-)
<teepee> my advice would be to not do this though
<t4nk_freenode> I'm getting a bit better at freecad now though
<ndnihil> hell, even before he was born I was leveraging that shit
<t4nk_freenode> but the latest annoyance is the one where you can't use the numpad '.' to enter decimals... and of course you always do
<ndnihil> first thing wife said was "we're gonna need to get one of those baby gates for the basement steps"
<ndnihil> to which I responded, "no worries babydoll, love of my life, I got this"
<ndnihil> printed up some spacers done in openscad
* t4nk_freenode just got cut looking at the pic
<ndnihil> and welded up a gate you could bounce a truck off of
<ndnihil> held the spacers in place with HDD magnets while I tacked the bars in
<ndnihil> spacers/jigs
<ndnihil> whatever you want to call them
<t4nk_freenode> that doesn't look like it's gonna break or bend really fast
<ndnihil> nope, strong like bull
<ndnihil> and I 3d printed the latch for it
<ndnihil> dont recall if I took pics of that one
<ndnihil> basically just a nested slot that is screwed into the wall, and on the gate there's a sliding bit that drops down into it, and a sprung notch/latch to keep that in place
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<ndnihil> far piece screws to the wall, middle piece slides up and down on the gate, and the remaining piece clamps solidly to the gate and that paddle thing serves as a latch for the slider
<ndnihil> not only was it kidproof enough that he didn't go tumbling down the steps
<ndnihil> but a large percentage of adults who come over can't figure it out either
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<gbruno> [github] WillAdams opened issue #3895 (Allow writing out only Echo text to file with user selected extension). https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/3895
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