01:29 <discocaml> <Liam> friend helped me finally find OCaml-tan

01:29 <discocaml> <Liam> she got posted to #offtopic🎲

06:55 <discocaml> <Bluddy> I'd be very surprised if that were true. Taking over preemptive scheduling for native code means 1. Not using OS threads but rolling your own and 2. Taking over basic functionality of the processor which requires permissions usually reserved for the OS.

06:57 <discocaml> <Armael> Not necessarily, you can preempt goroutines by having the compiler insert poll points in the generated code

06:59 <discocaml> <Armael> The ocaml compiler also inserts poll points (for other reasons, to process signals in particular); I wonder if those could be used to "preempt" fibers, eg by performing an effect at polls?

06:59 <discocaml> <Armael> (that would be handled by the scheduler)

08:08 <discocaml> <beajeanm> Afaik go doesn't offer access to native threads. The scheduler execute goroutines on multiple OS threads, but they is no way for the app developper to interact with that directly. And the recent versions preempt any goroutine that has been running for more than 10ms

09:36 <discocaml> <antron> Going to stream Dream development and general OCaml office hours at 14:00 at https://www.twitch.tv/antron_ML, in 2.5 hours. I'm going to eventually start announcing this only in #webdev or #share, but I wanted to ping a wider group of people (and IRC) a few more times first!

10:13 <discocaml> <Bluddy> That's very interesting @beajeanm. I guess they have constant polling points where a goroutine looks for preemption signals or checks on a timer and cooperatively switches to waiting.

11:36 <companion_cube> I think they added more preemption points in the last few years, but it used to be that a tight loop could peg a goroutine

11:37 <companion_cube> (i think)

15:02 <adrien> is it possible to get a TLS server's ciphersuites when connecting with tls-lwt? I'm under the impression this isn't easily possible

18:30 <discocaml> <cemerick> Is anyone aware of a structured logging reporter for the `logs` package?

18:32 <mauke> I have a question about modules

18:33 <mauke> https://dev.realworldocaml.org/files-modules-and-programs.html#nested-modules says Username.t and Hostname.t are considered different types, even though they're both declared equal to String_id.t

18:33 <mauke> when are module types considered "the same" by the type checker?

18:40 <octachron> Only when they are known as equal

18:42 <mauke> well, I would say a type is always known to be equal to itself

18:47 <octachron> Yes? But `Username.t` and `Hostname.t` are unrelated types: signatures are opaque.

18:49 <octachron> thus when one evaluate if `Username.t` and `Hostname.t` one should only look at the signature of both modules.

18:50 <octachron> And the signature only says that the module `Username` or `Hostname` defines some type `t`.

18:50 <octachron> How this type is defined is an implementation detail that users of the module are not privy too.

18:54 <mauke> does that mean without ": ID" they would be considered the same?

19:20 <octachron> Indeed, without an explicit signature, the typechecker use a transparent signature that leaves everything visible.

19:21 <octachron> In other words, the signature is the "public interface" of the module.

19:22 <mauke> where are these rules documented? I want to learn more about the details

19:29 <octachron> In "the signature and abstact types" section above for instance. Or in the same similar section of the reference manual.

21:30 <mauke> octachron: by reference manual, do you mean https://v2.ocaml.org/releases/5.0/htmlman/moduleexamples.html ?

21:31 <mauke> that's just prose with some examples

21:31 <mauke> I was hoping to find some sort of specification

21:33 <octachron> You can have a look at the language reference part of the manual or the academic articles if you prefer.

21:34 <discocaml> <Kali> there is also https://v2.ocaml.org/releases/5.0/htmlman/advexamples.html, and many in https://v2.ocaml.org/releases/5.0/htmlman/extn.html

21:38 <discocaml> <Kali> if you want a specification, you can see the Module Types and Module Expressions sections of https://v2.ocaml.org/releases/5.0/htmlman/language.html

21:41 <discocaml> <pseud> Any resources on just getting started with ocaml on the front-end ?

21:41 <discocaml> <pseud> Nothing fancy, just thinking something to help settle whether dune or esy, how to interop w a js library.

21:41 <discocaml> <pseud> That sort of thing. Almost thinking no frameworks at all, just with a nicer language (ocaml).