adam12 changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 3.3.1, 3.2.4, 3.1.5 https://www.ruby-lang.org | Logs https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/ruby
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<cappy> Using irb from terminal, defining a class, made data entry error. How does one end the class short of ending irb altogether as no amount of "end" completes the class definition. New Ruby user.
<llua> ctrl+c?
<cappy> llua: No joy. I think I'm going to try https://github.com/pry/pry which I just found. Apparently, editing within irb is (near) impossible, and most will "load" their .rb script into irb.
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<cappy_> Does `gem install ...` need to be done using sudo? Is there no local user install a la python?
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<llua> no
<llua> to the first question
<cappy_> "pry" is working.
<cappy_> It did require a sudo install to /var/lib/gems/2.7.0
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<konsolebox> cappy: User install is `--user-install`. Some Ruby setups however may force `gem install` to be in `user-install` mode always as the right way to install system gems may be by using the package manager.
<konsolebox> cappy: Also some Ruby setups don't have user gems working right away. You'll have to add bin path to PATH in ~/.bashrc or the command bashrc.
<cappy> konsolebox: tyvm. I'm just starting out w/ Ruby, so there is a lot to learn. I'll keep that in mind abt the gems; I only have the 3 from the "pry" install so far.
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<konsolebox> *common bashrc
<cappy> kk
<konsolebox> cappy: As for your first question, Ctrl-C does work. Perhaps you're using an old irb? New ones already have lots of pry-like features.
<cappy> Looks like I overstepped the PM on the "pry" install; 0.12.2 at the repo; 0.14.2 on the gem install.
<cappy> My irb 1.2.1 wouldn't quit the class def on <Ctl><C> ; <Ctl><D> did exit the app. As I'm running Mint 20.3 you're likely right; old irb.
<konsolebox> Consider using rbenv to install your own Ruby as a user. You'll have more updated versions and you'll get to try other versions more easily as well.
<konsolebox> It also allows projects to always run at a specific Ruby version.
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<cappy> Yes, that sounds like the direction I wanted to go in; a la python versatility. Thank you konsolebox for these tips.
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<cappy> * very old irb: 1.2.1 vs. 1.13.1.
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<cappy> Is there a Pry.config option to control the history buffer size/save to .pry_history similar to IRB.conf[:SAVE_HISTORY] = n ?
<cappy> I don't see an option in https://github.com/pry/pry/wiki/History
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<konsolebox> It's nice to see pry being updated again even though IRB already has made lots of improvements.
<konsolebox> cappy: https://github.com/pry/pry/blob/master/lib/pry/config.rb has a few history* attributes worth looking.
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<cappy> konsolebox: I've seen those: {save,load,file} etc. but nothing on the limit. Perhaps there is none? IRB defaults to 1000. Even Bash has a history setting. I'd be surprised if pry doesn't manage this somehow; just not finding it.
<cappy> So, at one time, pry did out-do irb and was the recommended console tool, then irb updates pushed functionality past pry? Now irb is "king" again? Just trying to get a perspective on what tool I should invest in.
<cappy> I do like the "edit" though. That's come in handy.
<konsolebox> cappy: You can change the saver function in Pry.config.history.saver so it limits history. The default one doesn't limit.
<cappy> And apparently I don't have that with my Ruby/irb, version ruby 2.7.0p0 when irb editing came out in ruby 2.7.0p1 and I'm just short of that.
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<konsolebox> Ruby 2.7 is too old for the new IRb.
<konsolebox> The new IRB has better completion than pry at the moment.
<konsolebox> Not only it provides you a menu to select possible completions, it also shows method documentation.
<konsolebox> PRY shows simple readline output.
<cappy> Yeah, I'm realizing that. I'm actually embarrassed to be bothering you with antique s/w here. I'm missing a lot of function and should upgrade. I did install the rbenv but haven't yet initialized; should do this instead of using the global system Ruby.
<konsolebox> It's safe to use it user-wise.
<konsolebox> I say go ahead.
<cappy> I've done the: `rbenv install --list` and it's a long list. Right now, I can't make heads-or-tails out of the 1.x, 2.x, jruby, rbx, ree available options. What should I go with to get the latest Ruby/irb?
<konsolebox> Start with the 3.x versions
<cappy> Latest on Github is 3.3.1 and I don't think this is the rbx-3.31 in that list, nor does a 3.3.1 show there; it stops at 2.4.1. Am I limited by my older OS version with that list?
<konsolebox> You probably have an old version of ruby-build. How did you install rbenv?
<cappy> With the old version of my PM :D From my repo, which Mint 20.3 has not updated its Ruby since.
<konsolebox> I see. I suggest you uninstall the rbenv from the PM and follow the steps in rbenv's documentation to install rbenv as a user.
<cappy> More embarrassment: ruby-build 20170726
<konsolebox> Very old :)
<cappy> Antique, I might add. Yes, good advice. I'll do that and look for those instructions to install as a "user".
<cappy> Accordingly: "Note that the version of rbenv that is packaged and maintained in the Debian and Ubuntu repositories is out of date." per https://github.com/rbenv/rbenv
<cappy> konsolebox: rbenv 1.2.0-91-gc3ba994 installed to ~/.rbenv. How do I get the ruby-build plugin? This came automatic with the old repo install.
<konsolebox> Let me revisit the doc
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<cappy> The doc says go here: https://github.com/rbenv/ruby-build
<konsolebox> cappy: Does `rbenv root` work well?
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<cappy> That seems to give me my $HOME/.rbenv , which looks right.
<konsolebox> Nice. You can follow the "Clone as rbenv plugin using git" method.
<cappy> Okay, see it.
<konsolebox> After that see if `rbenv install` works.
<cappy> rbenv install --list ==> 3.3.1 and a /short/ list of 3.x, one jruby, mruby, picoruby, two truffle..
<konsolebox> Try installing a version
<cappy> konsolebox: This is looking better.
<cappy> working...
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<cappy> doing the configure...
<cappy> make...
<cappy> still compiling... this is a laptop.
<cappy> We got an error. Following...
<konsolebox> Oh no
<cappy> psych: Could not be configured. It will not be installed.
<cappy> BUILD FAILED (Linuxmint 20.3 on x86_64 using ruby-build 20240501)
<konsolebox> Can you share a snippet of the error?
<konsolebox> Might just be a missing library.
<cappy> Hold one, I'll paste...
<konsolebox> By the way, what version were you trying to install?
<cappy> 3.3.1, the latest.
<cappy> Perhaps a dependeny library is out of date?
<konsolebox> Can you paste the contents of /tmp/ruby-build.20240507024850.126221.jwXWYd/ruby-3.3.1/ext/psych/mkmf.log?
<konsolebox> Possibly
<cappy> Hold one...
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<konsolebox> cappy: Looks like you need to install yaml.
<cappy> Agreed. It's not in my repo. If I install Go, does that get me Yaml? Or do I get Yaml here: https://github.com/go-yaml/yaml
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<konsolebox> cappy: https://github.com/yaml/libyaml is the one that provides yaml.h. Do you know any source where you can install this as a package? I don't know Mint's PM. Is it installing deb images as well?
<konsolebox> cappy: Not sure if Go will provide it too.
<konsolebox> Technically you can also just compile and install it from source but it will not be recorded in your PM's registry of installed packages.
<cappy> konsolebox: I'm going to have to study this further. I don't have answers to those questions. I've already asked Search how to install Yaml on Mint and there looks like a "sister" PyYAML for Python but no Ruby found. Need to look further.
<cappy> I could do a "checkinstall" for that; builds a DEB and then install with GDebi to get it in the PM.
<cappy> Hmmm... guess we'll call it a day for now. Do appreciate your help immensely.
<konsolebox> cappy: In Ubuntu and Debian based platforms it should be libyaml-dev as mentioned in Ruby's release page of 3.2. Starting 3.2, libyaml is no longer bundled.
<cappy> I'll look for that. Now that I know what the library is called. Get it installed and re-try the compile.
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<konsolebox> cappy: No worries. At least you already have rbenv installed. You can also try earlier versions like 3.1. At least it bumps the version a bit.
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<cappy> Yup. It's progress. Much thanks!
<konsolebox> cappy: Yes that's what you have to do. If libyaml-dev isn't available, you also compile from source. It's pretty simple. Clone libyaml repo, change directory, then `./configure --prefix=/usr && make && sudo make install`.
<cappy> Got it. kk
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<jaredce> anyone familiar with rvm? the steps to install it suggest installing their gpg keys... this command: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 409B6B1796C275462A1703113804BB82D39DC0E3 7D2BAF1CF37B13E2069D6956105BD0E739499BDB on OSX after installing gpg,
<jaredce> is failing
<jaredce> it comes back with a gpg: keyserver receive failed: No route to host
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<konsolebox> jaredce: There are alternative servers listed in https://rvm.io/rvm/security
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<Al2O3> is gpg that 'better' option to Simson's promotion of PGP back in the 90s?
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<cappy> konsolebox: Are you in?
<konsolebox> Sup
<cappy> Missing piece, which you identified "libyaml-dev", found in PM, installed, and build re-tried successfully. No w at Ruby 3.3.1, irb 1.11; did immediately see editing and other improvements over old version after running `rbenv init` => eval "$(rbenv init - bash)" into ~/.bash_profile, and including "~/.rbenv/bin" in PATH.
<cappy> Thank you again for your help getting me up-to-date past Ruby 2.7/irb 1.2. I'm certain this will facilitate following the more current web tutorials as I learn Ruby. 👍
<konsolebox> Good to hear you got to install it finally
<konsolebox> Welcome
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<cappy> Glad to be here. Very much liking Ruby. The constructs seems natural and does what I think it should do. Can't say that for other languages I've tried.
<cappy> * some other :P
<Al2O3> ruby doobie doo.
<Al2O3> learn smalltalk, and then C, and you will with ObjC come to love ruby more.
<Al2O3> dot syntax is a bit much, but if kept in check and not too long or deep (3 levels of class methods) its manageable.
<Al2O3> otherwise, its a library of weird obscurity that makes one think, C++
<Al2O3> Maybe I have said this prior, but after a few years of rush to pressure in PCs, I have now come to realize its a lot less monitoring on NG stove with 3 PCs at a time, to ramp up slowly, 30-45 mins and not have to monitor that, as well as monitor the PC time in the 2.5 hours.
<Al2O3> totally sold on this method, its a no brainer.
<Al2O3> yep, I'm slow, and learned, and once I get it, its perm.
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<Al2O3> like an 80s hair design. :)
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<[0x1eef]> I find Objective-C to be really weird. But only because of the long method names.
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<Al2O3> it was practice to not worry about that, with auto-fill
<Al2O3> the IDEs in the early 2000s did that for you, apple/next.
<Al2O3> now, its common, just tab complete.
<Al2O3> thank you simson garfinkel and company.
<[0x1eef]> Yeah. Plus to some extent, that's not really the language but a common convention within the language.
<Al2O3> most people have issued with ObjC with Brad's notation to deal with messaging.
<Al2O3> aka, brackets
<Al2O3> [ and ]
<Al2O3> dot syntax is about the same, just java and C++ like.
<Al2O3> so pick your nose, or your language, but don't pick your language's nose.
<[0x1eef]> I wonder will Swift ever replace ObjC or is there certain things ObjC will always be better at ?
<Al2O3> I can't say.
<cappy> Al2O3: I've written in C and Perl mostly. Tried the O-O with Java and it didn't stick. Touched on the debate between C++ and C# pros & cons, then tried Rust and found the exe's bloated :(
<Al2O3> of the high level langs I find ST the simplest, both in syntax and concept.
<Al2O3> of the low levels, FORTH
<Al2O3> of the middle ground, ObjC and maybe (not don't commercial Swift) the newer incarnations.
<Al2O3> for the best bang for the buck, ASM core on your machine, then FORTH, then C, and after that layers on layers of garbage for a project or abstraction that makes contractor money.
<Al2O3> however, and important, the best solution is one you are productive with, comes easy, and you understand.
<Al2O3> and you can make a living with, and there is long term markets.
<Al2O3> there are plenty of legacy COBOL/FORTRAN/etc experts making a nice living and sleeping well at night.
<[0x1eef]> Plus Objective-C centers around the Apple ecosystem mainly. It's niche in every aspect :)
<Al2O3> that is true, Brad would be disappointed, but it was NeXT centric, and became Apple centric.
<Al2O3> at the time in '86 or so, it was a morph from ST and ATG at apple to a language NeXT and others could use.
<Al2O3> It has not passed its prime, but its nearing it.
<Al2O3> I have never liked typing [ or ] as vs ( or ) or .
<Al2O3> with AI code generation now common reality, I'm not sure typing matters any more.
<Al2O3> its 5th generational, specify with rules and a code is written.
<Al2O3> maybe 6th, not sure.
<Al2O3> I'm so out of it, could actually care less.
<[0x1eef]> Lol
<bougyman> Heya, does anyone know how to request an invite to the ruby-developers slack? Their webform redirects to a heroku app that's 404.
<Al2O3> so the qwerty vs devorak argument is as silly as vi vs emacs
<Al2O3> 404 is your buddy :)
<cappy> Al2O3: Your point, the "one you are productive with..." rings true. I just didn't like Java, even after revisiting it, somewhat forcing myself to learn it because it was hot and everyone else was on-board.
<bougyman> No, it's really not :)
<Al2O3> :)
<bougyman> manveru: are you in that slack?
<Al2O3> splitboards vs IBM selectrics.
<Al2O3> the mid 90s cappy, SUN and java, the big web thing, it was hip
<cappy> Al2O3: I know; I went through that.
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<Al2O3> WebObjects with Persistanc Objects had a place, but it never won out enterprise.
<cappy> And everything I learned in Java mentally-dumped.
<Al2O3> I helped work on and test the WO and Persistance Layer at NeXT via a 3rd party at the time.
<Al2O3> it was before DBObjects.
<Al2O3> it was a joke, and we laughed, and made out like bandits.
<Al2O3> the folks at NeXT came and visited us and begged to see.
<Al2O3> literally, begged.
<Al2O3> they had no idea how persistence worked.
<cappy> I had work as a DBA back then, loving Oracle 10i, writing schema, ERDs, leaving the UI to the Java coders.
<Al2O3> cool, this was way before Java existed as a product
<Al2O3> '93 and '94, in San Jose area, left NeXT and did contract work as a code arch/monkey.
<Al2O3> fucked up to think that was 30 years back.
<Al2O3> NeXT was so desperate at that time, that Steve basically said go and rape whatever you can and call it our own.
<Al2O3> that became from our project, persistent objects, to DBKit, or maybe a year prior.
<Al2O3> it was a come johnny lately 2nd generation solution to flat scheme dbases.
<Al2O3> there were obj databases prior, but expensive, and couldn't solve existing scheme unwinds, and rewinds with black/shortages.
<Al2O3> you may learn a bit about ruby, and how it can be utilized, obscured and abused, with https://dgopstein.github.io/content/iorcc/faq.html
<cappy> Most of my work was in RDBMS; the hierarchical models started coming in vogue as the "new thing" when in fact they pre-dated relational. I had to turn away some work b/c it didn't make sense at the time to convert models.
<cappy> Looking at that IORCC page. I'll see what I can get out of that.
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<Al2O3> lol, its a joke, on the IOCC or such.
<Al2O3> lasted one year, apparently resurrected, and of course has to be taken tongue in cheak/eek.
<Al2O3> clearly the C crowd could not take the joek.
<Al2O3> ruby either, they wants abstraction, not obfuscation.
<Al2O3> cheek/joke/trend, the layers of obtuse abstraction made for job security, and if not HIH, the created, or user was ostracized.
<Al2O3> the insecurity of language, process, understanding is still the same, some have made a living with bridges from one to the other, most have made careers or books/tours with the other.
<Al2O3> pragmatic folks come to mind, so do a slew of others.
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