klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<klange> oops, was calculating the width of a label with the wrong font metrics, that explains why it was misaligned...
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<rebedin> but kingoffrance is right on the first part, well well, security and performance can be authored together , yes, it's when there is one master who does not deal with memory addresses and one say network dma master slave. OoO is fine to implement that type of out of phase security for half duplex in terms of uplinks downlinks, in order CPU is fine too, with loop buffers available or pipeline register based inst. windows, those admittedly are small though
<rebedin> work one has a way to secure things a bit.
<rebedin> :). I am pretty sure only drain terminal is used on the out of phase interconnect master arbitration logic. it's dma channel i.e line on the motherboard, parallel but behind interconnect input bus latches. on fast pipeline those units would operate almost completly parallel two dma masters that is and bus logic is queued for writebacks, as you understand that allows TCP protocol hacker to compromise the cpu which is downside of it. so for very important
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<klange> dumb calculator that mostly just spits strings at my bytecode vm interpreter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNDg9jy3sL0
<bslsk05> ​'Rudimentary Kuroko-backed calculator' by K Lange (00:02:03)
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<moon-child> now make it symbolic
<moon-child> term-rewriting
<klange> it's lucky to 'accidentally' have variables at all :P
<moon-child> pattern-matching is fun. Just repeated dfs, you can do it in like 50loc
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<bslsk05> ​lkml.org: LKML: Richard Weinberger: [PATCH] Implement leftpad syscall
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<jamestmartin> how much of an impact would there be on the startup time of large programs if prelinking and lazy loading were not used?
<moon-child> why don't you make a benchmark and find out?
<klange> I don't lazy load and heavily abuse dynamic objects, and things are... just fine, actually.
<klange> But then I'm sitting on mostly C, and things are still at least linked to those shared objects and executables. If you were doing heavy C++, or linking lots of a single-compilation-unit objects statically, or wanted to do full LTO at runtime...
<jamestmartin> because I don't have a loader to benchmark. unless I tried to modify ld.so or something?
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<klange> You can pretty quickly/easily force Linux's ld.so to always NOW-load.
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<klange> moon-child: yawn, there were already 3 release of PonyOS by then, that's just lazy as far as April Fools jokes go; though props to David for actually doing it and not just writing a blog post pretending to have done it...
<jamestmartin> ah, that's good. I'll try to figure out how to disable pre-linking too.
<klange> What exactly do you mean by "pre-linking" anyway?
<klange> If you mean linking together relocatable object files at runtime, that's not a thing you'd be able to do with Linux's ld.so [though the kernel can do it... for itself...]
<bslsk05> ​www.linker-aliens.org: The Cost Of ELF Symbol Hashing
<jamestmartin> it's when you map and re-locate shared objects in advance, which is apparently something that Linux does
<klange> I think only old Fedora setups do that.
<klange> And not for PIE binaries, which is everything.
<jamestmartin> as far as I can tell, that's the main reason shared libraries need to be PIC (as opposed to PIE)
<klange> prelink was DOA because of ASLR.
<jamestmartin> ah, so that functionality is more-or-less obsolete?
<jamestmartin> is there any other reason I'd care about PIC (as opposed to PIE), other than just generally reducing the number of relocations that need to be done?
<klange> PIC isn't about reducing the number, it's about centralizing them to reduce the number of pages they occur over.
<jamestmartin> ahh, that would make sense. but it's still an optimization rather than something which would affect what you're able to use an object for?
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<jamestmartin> anyway, thank you for the info
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<klange> Old iso9660 and pcspkr modules recovered... nothing to mount with the former yet, but I never actually removed my `beep` utility and have been including the beeper hardware in my qemu config this whole time, so nice to have that back I guess...
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<klange> kept them both as modules and neither is loaded by default; might integrate the iso9660 driver, and not sure if I have a good way to check for existence of the beeper and/or if I should just always try to load it
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<klange> spot what's wrong with this code: for (size_t i = 0; i < (aLen < bLen) ? aLen : bLen; i++) { ...
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<Mutabah> Oof
<GeDaMo> More parentheses! :P
<GeDaMo> Or use min
<Mutabah> Interesting, no warnings
<klange> The bug was also quiet because the loop body handles most cases on its own - it's part of a macro to implement lexical string comparisons
<klange> Turns out in the several months I've been using it I haven't tried to compare a string to itself... until I replaced my libc qsort's bubble sort with a Wikipedia quicksort that doesn't elide the self-comparison.
<klange> In retrospect, it was super easy to reproduce with `'a' < 'a'`. Since my interpreter interns strings, that will just keep trucking comparing the same memory to itself until it walks off the end.
<sham1> I'd precalculate the lengths
<klange> It does. It just doesn't check them correctly because ternary doesn't bind that way.
<klange> The condition of the loop is becoming "aLen" or "bLen", rather "i < aLen" or "i < bLen". That's the gotcha.
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<sham1> Well if you had `size_t len = (aLen < bLen) ? aLen : bLen;` that wouldn't be a problem now would it
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<resting12> What do you even want, once the cpu is open, all the circuit is going to be read out, no alus are present with resistors of different kind
<resting12> so everything of the circuit will be read out
<resting12> isas everything if needed very quickly
<resting12> so thomas johann seebeck was that human, who just explained that among many others, before transistors were ever made by british
<resting12> metal junction , but none the less the same thing
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<resting12> i do not even think i am doing jokes where you brainwash my sweetest person in the world
<resting12> i will come out and i will fucking kill you
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<sham1> The heck was that
<zid> psychosis
<sham1> Oh I see
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<Bitweasil> Your Monday Morning Coffee? :/
<Bitweasil> Speaking of. ENOCOFFEE.
<zid> I'll take a coffee
<zid> 5 sugars, milk
<sham1> ENOCFFE
<sham1> We can't assume that we can have identifiers longer than 7 chars
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<sham1> Off with the useless vowels!
<sham1> Oh, should have been 6 chars
<sham1> ENCFFE
<GeDaMo> 0wt 0f v0w3ls
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<Bitweasil> Could we go with Intel naming, where they randomly drop vowels, but not always?
<Bitweasil> ENCFFE
<sham1> I already said that
<sham1> For the record, I dislike these kinds of identifier names. They were necessary back in the day, but still. Ugh
<sham1> umount
<sham1> creat
<sham1> creat is even less excusable since "create" has 6 letters
<clever> sham1: some files on the rpi firmware are also truncated, because of the old 8.3 filenames, and a lack of long-filename support
<sham1> Oh man
<clever> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1533 Jul 25 16:05 vc4-kms-dsi-lt070me05000-v2.dtbo
<clever> actually, now that i think of it, the overlays arent...
<clever> maybe its just the 1st-stage bootloader
<clever> but the 2nd stage can do LFN
<clever> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 10249 Jul 25 16:05 fixup_db.dat
<clever> this is the relocation data, for the debug build, on vc4 era pi's
<clever> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8403 Jul 25 16:05 fixup4db.dat
<clever> same, on vc6 era pi's
<clever> they had to drop the _, because it wouldnt have all fit!
<clever> sham1: that and other things, is why i'm skipping right to ext4 support, lol
<sham1> Well ext2 would also work, but I suppose ext4 is nicer even with this
<clever> ext2 support already works in LK
<clever> but then you need 3 FS's, fat32 for the maskrom loader, ext2 for the open firmware /boot, and ext4 for the / and os
<clever> with a pinch of new code, you can merge the 2 ext's
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<clever> sham1: so far, the only real difference ive run into, is extents vs indirect blocks, and the field fields that ensure you actually support features
<clever> i need to implement a sha256 --check, and then write some testcases
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<Bitweasil> I was just going to ask about that, can't a basic ext2 reader read an ext4 fs? Or is that only 2/3 that are compatible like that?
<clever> Bitweasil: the only actual problem ive run into so far, after disabling the safeties, was extents
<clever> ext2/3, has an array of block#'s in a block, and then a tree of the same, one layer up
<clever> but ext4, instead has a file-block#, length, and disk-block# extent, in an array
<Bitweasil> Ah, ok.
<clever> so each slot, can refer to multiple on-disk clocks
<clever> and the next layer up, refers to the whole range covered by a block worth of those records
<Bitweasil> So it's not backwards compatible with ext2. Ok.
<clever> you can disable extent support, when formatting
<clever> the wikipedia page for ext4, lists what features you can disable, to make it compatible with ext3
<clever> journaling is likely the main thing blocking ext2
<Bitweasil> ok
<bslsk05> ​github.com: Page not found · GitHub · GitHub
* clever kicks chrome again
<bslsk05> ​github.com: initial code to support ext4 by cleverca22 · Pull Request #303 · littlekernel/lk · GitHub
<klange> well, this was not how i expected to spend my morning, but... it is what it is
<clever> Bitweasil: line 140 of ext2.c, modifies the feature testing, so it assumes it has support for all ext4 features
<clever> Bitweasil: 131 of io.c, will detect if an inode is using extents, and handle it correctly
<Bitweasil> ok
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<geist> yah i forget precisely what makes ext4 ext4 (vs ext3 or 2)
<geist> if it's mostly a series of features it may be that the individual names are mostly for a feature set on top of the core design
<geist> not sure there's any hard incompatible superblock structure or something changes
<clever> geist: the wikipedia page for ext4 mentioned that mounting ext2/3 with the new ext4 driver can still give performance improvements, in the block allocation area