azonenberg changed the topic of #scopehal to: libscopehal, libscopeprotocols, and glscopeclient development and testing | https://github.com/glscopeclient/scopehal-apps | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/scopehal
<_whitenotifier> [scopehal-apps] azonenberg opened issue #566: Refactoring: use yaml-cpp instead of string manipulation for writing scopesession files - https://github.com/glscopeclient/scopehal-apps/issues/566
<_whitenotifier> [scopehal-apps] azonenberg assigned issue #566: Refactoring: use yaml-cpp instead of string manipulation for writing scopesession files - https://github.com/glscopeclient/scopehal-apps/issues/566
<_whitenotifier> [scopehal-apps] azonenberg labeled issue #566: Refactoring: use yaml-cpp instead of string manipulation for writing scopesession files - https://github.com/glscopeclient/scopehal-apps/issues/566
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<bvernoux> Hi Everyone and Happy New Year 2023
<bvernoux> If some are interested I will build 5x VNA eCAL (going up to 8GHz) based on the amazing https://github.com/jankae/LibreCAL
<bvernoux> I have done some small improvements on it
<bvernoux> The case is quite expensive as it requires a CNC and I have launched it on PCBWay and it cost >130USD with Aluminum 7075 Bead Blast
<tnt> bvernoux: is that 130USD per case ?
<bvernoux> yes 130USD for the full case top+bottom
<bvernoux> For those who have a CNC it shall not cost a lot
<bvernoux> I have not found anything cheaper online in fact with Aluminum 7075 Bead Blast
<bvernoux> Also with threads
<bvernoux> jankae have done an amazing job (again) on it
<bvernoux> I will share my design modifications which are really minor
<bvernoux> I plan to use special Via Covering with Copper paste Filled & Capped
<bvernoux> for the PCB
<bvernoux> To improve temperature spreading like in heat pipe
<bvernoux> it shall also improve isolation and RF signal integrity in theory
<azonenberg> there's something really weird about seeing a usb-c connector and a spartan-6 on the same board
<azonenberg> it's like seeing a BGA and a uv eprom in the same place
<bvernoux> spartan-6 ?
<azonenberg> (the actual vna not the ecal)
<bvernoux> ha yes
<bvernoux> I do not plan to by the LibreVNA the performance are not good enough and frequency a bit too low (6GHz max)
<bvernoux> by->buy
<bvernoux> But the LibreCAL is clearly amazing and such things (2 Ports version) cost more than 1600USD
<bvernoux> here we have 4 ports ;)
<azonenberg> Yeah if it's any good :p
<bvernoux> the BOM is not cheap anyway
<bvernoux> PCB+Components+Assembly cost more than 150USD per unit
<bvernoux> So 1/10 of the price of any eCal
<d1b2> <david.rysk> 6GHz is pretty capable for lots of applications... but why an S6?
<bvernoux> the problem is not only 6GHz the dynamic range and noise floor is not very good on LibreVNA
<bvernoux> really worst than on my old boat anchor HP 8753D
<azonenberg> yeah s6 is ancient tech
<azonenberg> there's absolutely no reason to use it in a modern design
<azonenberg> they were obsolete when i was in grad school
<bvernoux> the FPGA was planned to be replaced by something more recent
<bvernoux> but anyway that will do not change anything on the performance as everything shall be redesigned to have performance similar to PicoVNA ...
<bvernoux> anyway so far I'm interested only in the eCal for my different VNA and to avoid exploding my costly Cal kit which cost more than 600USD
<bvernoux> eCal use state of the art switch with PE426462 - UltraCMOS® SP6T RF Switch - pSemi
<bvernoux> Those switch are really amazing for the price (about 10USD/unit)
<d1b2> <david.rysk> picoVNA is too expensive, nanoVNA is not sufficiently capable
<bvernoux> with IIP3 of 60dBm you can search you will never find a similar part available in a chipset (AD are very far behind)
<bvernoux> Isolation is just amazing too min 30dB and up to 65dB
<bvernoux> 35dB isolation at 6GHz
<bvernoux> with extended temperature range -55°C to +125°C
<bvernoux> I'm still searching very good resistor for the LOAD 49.9Ohms
<tnt> bvernoux: So are you selling complete units (assembled pcb + case + cal factors) ?
<bvernoux> No
<bvernoux> I just plan to build 5 PCB and test them and build 1 Case
<bvernoux> As the production is the same price for 1 PCB or 5x
<bvernoux> especially the cost for the P&P which are quite high at start
<bvernoux> The aim is mainly to do that for my own use and potentially sell some spare PCB populated and fully tested
<bvernoux> I can also produce the Cases to have something complete with full calibration of each eCal saved in flash
<bvernoux> using my expensive Cal Kit + HP 8753D from 30KHz to 6GHz (I cannot go to 8GHzwhich in theory is supported)
<tnt> Yeah, I'd be interested in one but thing is I have nothing to calibrate it and measureing it without the case would probably be useless since I'd expect the case to influence the calibration ...
<bvernoux> Anyway there is no hurry as the part will take >10 days to arrive and the Fab will take probably 10days ...
<bvernoux> The Aluminum case take 15days work
<bvernoux> If anyone find cheaper/faster/better for the Aluminum case it will be great
<bvernoux> It requires non magnetic aluminum of course
<bvernoux> but there is some RF gasket planned to attenuate any RF signal too
<bvernoux> Like described by jankae ManufacturingDrawing.pdf => RF gasket SG080160D-22
<bvernoux> this can attenuate RF up to more than 100dB
<azonenberg> woop i have 5 more boards inbound from oshpark now. the ethernet directional coupler probe, isolation test, new resistor characterization board, new SMPM test board, and the Beatty standard
<bvernoux> ha great
<bvernoux> Will be nice to find some good resistor to be used as LOAD for VNA calibration
<azonenberg> Vishay FC or CH series
<azonenberg> their 50 ohm are very close to ideal
<bvernoux> in fact 50ohms is not mandatory
<bvernoux> even 49.9 is good what is important is to have S11 very high
<bvernoux> at >6GHz
<bvernoux> with a stable impedance of course
<bvernoux> The aim here is to reach up to 8GHz which is the specification limit of the switch
<bvernoux> the SMA connectors are specified up to 26.5GHz and are the amazing Amphenol 901-10510-2
<bvernoux> which are very good
<azonenberg> bvernoux: these days I prefer Rosenberger 32K243-40ML5
<azonenberg> but those amphenol are not bad at all
<azonenberg> i just like the screw mount
<azonenberg> more mechanically robust when torquing the connector
<bvernoux> yes the price is not the same too ;)
<azonenberg> also, vishay CH0402F 50 ohm has better than -20 dB return loss to 10 GHz
<bvernoux> ha great
<azonenberg> CH02016 is even better
<azonenberg> better than -40
<bvernoux> CH0402-50RGFT ?
<azonenberg> yeah, or similar. CH02016 is best for low parasitics
<azonenberg> you do of course have to pay attention to how you mount it
<bvernoux> the eCal have a heater too
<bvernoux> with a NTC thermistor to check the temperature to regulate it
<bvernoux> all is managed with open source firmware with a RP2040
<bvernoux> also the PC tool are amazing with a QT Application or python ones
<bvernoux> I think the 0402 Vishay will be perfect
<bvernoux> 0201 is a bit small and quite sensible to solder ...
<bvernoux> I see the impedance is the same for both
<bvernoux> even the S11 is the same up to 10GHz
<bvernoux> as anyway we cannot exceed 8GHz with the switch specification
<bvernoux> In theory CH402F shall be better than CH402 N
<bvernoux> but I do not see any difference in the datasheet with S11/S21 ...
<azonenberg> Ignore the datasheet
<azonenberg> look at the published s-params
<azonenberg> the actual Modelithics data is much better than what's in the pdf
<bvernoux> SParameters are not available for CH0402-50R
<azonenberg> Then where did https://www.antikernel.net/temp/CH0402F_P_050R.s2p come from?
<bvernoux> you asked it ;)
<bvernoux> So I will use CH0402-50RGFPT
<bvernoux> they are quite expensive but it is clearly a must have for an eCal ;)
<bvernoux> 1% tolerance are not available
<bvernoux> the most important is the very nice impedance and S11/S21 parameters
<bvernoux> ok so no just parts there is for more than 110USD/board ;)
<bvernoux> no=>now
<bvernoux> I just hope it will work fine at end ;)
<azonenberg> So FC series have tighter tolerance, down to 0.1%
<azonenberg> CH series have lower parasitics
<azonenberg> So you can pick depending on which matters for your application
<bvernoux> yes here tolerance is not so important
<bvernoux> even 100ppm is not so bad as anyway there is a heater
<bvernoux> so there should have very small variation in temperature so ppm will not be a problem
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