beneroth changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | The scalpel of software development | Channel Log: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp | Check www.picolisp.com for more information
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<aw-> beneroth: what's the panic?
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<razzy> OT, adventofcode.com is here
<tankf33der> razzy: implementing this year. Will keep as long as possible.
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<beneroth> aw-, firefox (or other NSS-using application, Thunderbird, and other apps not from Mozilla) sending an HTTPS request, server responds with a certificate which overflows NSS and executes code.
<beneroth> aw-, that's how I understood it.
<beneroth> aw-, what browser are using? Chrome? Edge on Linux? Firefox?
<razzy> ni have trouble erasing newline char in vip.
<Regenaxer> You can delete a line with 'dd'
<Regenaxer> also empty line
<Regenaxer> Or do you want to "join" two lines? This is 'J'
<razzy> Regenaxer: yes join. why not delete end of line char?
<razzy> thank you.
<Regenaxer> There is no end of line char in Vi/Vim/Vip
<Regenaxer> Just lines
<razzy> i see, funny. thank you
<Regenaxer> yes, kind of funny
<razzy> delete at start of line could join lines in future, yes?
<Regenaxer> in future?
<razzy> if i program it :D
<Regenaxer> yes
<Regenaxer> but what "delete"? 'X'?
<razzy> i use d left, d right
<Regenaxer> What is d left?
<razzy> d move left
<Regenaxer> Key 'd'?
<razzy> yes
<Regenaxer> ah, yes
<Regenaxer> so 'dh'?
<razzy> yes
<Regenaxer> 'dh' is the same as 'X', I normally use the latter
<Regenaxer> so 'dl' would do the same as 'kJ'?
<Regenaxer> except that you must be at start of line
<razzy> dh on start of line would do as kJ
<Regenaxer> right, good
<Regenaxer> 'X' might be more convenient, you can press 'X' and hold it down to repeat
<Regenaxer> so delete the current line, then go up and continue deleting
<razzy> i am trying to reduce number of functions an keep power to user.
<razzy> now i delete by lines and paragraphs.
<Regenaxer> d} ?
<razzy> i do not repeat deleting much
<razzy> yes
<Regenaxer> I use repeat a lot, as Penti has a special repeat key, you can repeat slowly
<razzy> could be setup in a way that repeat of move command repeat whole command.
<Regenaxer> Whole change command is repeated with '.' in Vi
<razzy> maybe better
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<aw-> beneroth: mostly 'Surf'
<beneroth> aw-, surf -> GTK -> GIO, so it uses TLS implementation in GIO. so neither NSS nor OpenSSL etc.
<beneroth> does it fulfill all your needs, meaning can you render all kinds of websites (ebanking?) with it or do some websites require you to using a "mainstream" browser?
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<aw-> beneroth: haven't found a website that doesnt work fine
<beneroth> nice, thank you
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<razzy> I am abusing vip for days. Vip seems to hate closing parentheses on new line.
<beneroth> hehe. possible, closing parentheses on new line is against Regenaxer's picolisp style.
<beneroth> in C/C++ I like having them on separate lines, so code blocks are easily spotted when scrolling vertically.
<beneroth> in picolisp I like the rule with "...)" no spaces, so its a closing parens related to an opening parens on the same line, or " ) ) )" parens with spaces before them -> closing an S-Exprs which started on earlier lines above
<beneroth> some picolispers like to use ] at end of function. ] is specific to picolisp (afaik), closing all open S-Expressions instantly up to the top level, so now long lines with many ) ) ) ) ) ) at end of big function.
<razzy> i like ] only as temporary hack. it breaks some properties.
<beneroth> yeah only good for top level
<beneroth> I never use ]
<razzy> i never know where my top lvl will be. :]
<tooDumbToFLENG> beneroth: I'm afraid that ']' or ‘}' as "super-paren" was stolen from Interlisp...
<Regenaxer> razzy, ) on the start of a line should be no problem
<Regenaxer> It is just that ( at the start is considered as "top" level by the '%' command
<razzy> Regenaxer i have example, where % and ^e breaks for no other reason than not joined lines.
<razzy> said differently, closing parens on new line
<Regenaxer> Not sure atm what ^E exactly does. Perhaps it looks at paragraphs, so it stops at empty lines?
<razzy> evaluate
<Regenaxer> but % stops at ( at the start of a line
<Regenaxer> yes, of course
<Regenaxer> but how ^E parses the text
<Regenaxer> I tested now, empty line is OK
<razzy> i evaluated (str) which imho (read) text
<razzy> i send example
<Regenaxer> ^E calls vip~s-expr
<Regenaxer> ok
<Regenaxer> the ( at the beginning is special
<Regenaxer> it is necessary this way
<Regenaxer> because otherwise ] would never find a match till the beginning of the file
<Regenaxer> but ) ?
<razzy> first example works, second EOF overrrun
<Regenaxer> When 'load'ing ?
<Regenaxer> or in Vip?
<razzy> when evaluating in VIP
<Regenaxer> uh, why use 'str' here?
<Regenaxer> I think Vip uses 'str' himself when evaluating buffer contents
<razzy> i was so proud of ot
<Regenaxer> Perhaps conflicts?
<razzy> *it
<Regenaxer> But 'str' in your use case looks wrong
<Regenaxer> 'str' is really seldom used
<Regenaxer> Never in normal application code
<razzy> if i put space on new line, it works
<razzy> Regenaxer: ok, what shoud i use?
<Regenaxer> Only is special text processing
<Regenaxer> What does that do?
<Regenaxer> 'in' *does* what you want
<beneroth> tooDumbToFLENG, ah possible. Regenaxer you know Interlisp? or had MacLisp ] too ?
<Regenaxer> you want to call 'curl' in a pipe, right?
<razzy> i want to generate and send curl
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<Regenaxer> yes
<Regenaxer> let me clean up
<razzy> (str) works rather nice.
<razzy> if no new lines :]
<Regenaxer> I think you need http://ix.io/3GO1
<Regenaxer> Not tested, just rewrote the second case
<Regenaxer> Variables like Year and ID-cookie are not set
<Regenaxer> 'str' is always a *huge* overkill
<Regenaxer> You 'pack' something just te qarse it again
<Regenaxer> So never never ever use 'str' please!!!
<Regenaxer> Never in application code
<Regenaxer> And in your case it is double nonsense
<Regenaxer> 'str' parses s-expressions!
<Regenaxer> and you pass it an URL string
<Regenaxer> I'm *really* shocked
<razzy> i do not know what to say. am I feeling that you are shocked in a bad way?
<Regenaxer> hmm, I'm shocked cause such kind of 'str' usage appeared already often in PicoLisp discussions
<Regenaxer> I'm surprised how people get this idea
<razzy> yes, i remember (str) clearly. i did not get used to using (list) function
<Regenaxer> Please forget 'str' completely
<Regenaxer> and also 'any' and 'sym'
<razzy> I am advocating for marking functions as obscure
<Regenaxer> You should not need them unless manipulating text as Lisp structures
<Regenaxer> well, not obscure
<Regenaxer> special purpose
<Regenaxer> Not lispy
<Regenaxer> 'list' is one if the most fundamental Lisp funcyions
<Regenaxer> next to 'cons'
<Regenaxer> So why do you have problems with 'list'
<Regenaxer> I was already shocked today by "i want this (fill (quote a c d e @X a)), but without space between e @X A"
<Regenaxer> How can you talk about "space" between list elements?
<Regenaxer> I give up
<Regenaxer> afp
<razzy> honest weird reason: most used functions has exponentially shorter name(in all human languages). str feels shorter and more used.
<razzy> also, I was able to determine purpose from datasheet earlier for (str) and i tend to remember it first.
<razzy> also, I am trying to speed-code for competition, while regular working.
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<beneroth> applying meta programming ideas based on string manipulation (e.g. building SQL strings in a java program) to lisp is truly not a good idea. looks like that to me, maybe?
<beneroth> this is doing it much more complicated, with much overhead and bad performance :-/
<beneroth> Lisp = List programming
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<Regenaxer> ret
<Regenaxer> razzy, true, shorter names indicate more frequent use
<Regenaxer> beneroth, right
<Regenaxer> doing string manipulations in Lisp is often a misunderstanding of the real workings
<Regenaxer> Anyway, sorry for my rants, I'm tired today
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