klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<geist> you mean like what keyboard it has installed? or if it's ascii vs ebcdic or whatnot?
<geist> the layout of the keybard i dunno, actually. ps2 i dont think describes itself, and USB seems like it should, but then why does macos or windows ask when you plug one in if it does describe itself?
<bslsk05> ​twitter: <dougallj> The Apple M1 return-address prediction stacks are large: 50 entries on Firestorm and 32 on Icestorm. But unlike Intel and AMD, this gets cleared on overflow, leading to a surprising performance cliff. ␤ ␤ Probably easy to avoid, but something to watch out for. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfA3USLaUAAs0qR.jpg
<bslsk05> ​[Icestorm graph showing showing clock-cycles per iteration as "nested call depth" increases from 1 to 40. There are three lines. The first, labeled "call-ret", gradually increases from 5 cycles at 1-nested-call to 74-cycles at 32-nested calls, then jumps up to 553 cycles at 33-nested calls, then continues to increase at the same gradient as before. The second line, labeled "mispredicted", sits just above the first line, trailing by about 11 to 14 cycles (i
<heat> hrm?
<heat> bslsk05 dumb dumb
<heat> i guess this is some feature for visually impaired people
<kindofwonderful> geist: i talked about the locale without knowing it
<heat> geist, yeah good question, i thought usb hid stuff described itself but maybe that's not the case with keyboard layouts
<kindofwonderful> i thought that ascii is somewhat "engrained" in todays PC
<heat> OR
<heat> the keyboard layout is described but not precise enough
<geist> yeah that's my thought
<kindofwonderful> didn't realized that it can be changed
<geist> maybe the general gist of the language is set, but the precise layout isn't
<heat> maybe it just knows where 1234567890 is, but it doesn't know what shift+0 is, shift+1, etc
<kindofwonderful> i was wondering how functions like tolower() work independently on character set
<heat> yeah it seems like im kinda correct?
<heat> see page 88
<heat> this is also missing a shitton of languages
<heat> like cyrillic keyboards
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<gog> kindofwonderful: lookup tables
<bslsk05> ​codebrowser.dev: C-ctype.c source code [glibc/locale/C-ctype.c] - Codebrowser
<gog> among other ways
<kindofwonderful> gog: thanks, i tried to look for the implementatio in glibc 2.36
<bslsk05> ​ftp.gnu.org: Index of /gnu/glibc
<kindofwonderful> unfortunately with no success
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<kindofwonderful> gog: i don't see though any function definition there
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<kindofwonderful> but it's not function definitions
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<zid> wideterm
<heat> you're getting me jealous :(
<zid> does your OS play zelda yet heat
<heat> no
<heat> it's worse than boros
<zid> what are you even playing at wow
<zid> Maybe that's the answer, spending all your time playing WoW
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<klys> pbx, is that your project? if so, it might be a good idea to commit
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<klange> pbx: that's awesome
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<moon-child> is that a custom x implementation? Or full x port? Very cool either way
<moon-child> full xorg port, I should say
<klange> From the forum post, xfbdev.
<klange> The 'kdrive tiny x server'.
<klange> also known as TinyX
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<kindofwonderful> hi
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<pbx> moon-child: klange : it's kdrive, which is part of xorg codebase these days, but has far less stringent requirements
<pbx> the thing that prevents me from porting xorg at the moment, is not having a dynamic loader
<klange> Always a little amusing to hear where different projects go beyond the basics; there's so much stuff I'm missing to port any X implementation, but I _do_ have a dynamic loader :)
<klange> (which I would not particularly recommend as a reference point, mine's very... cobbled together.)
<pbx> such as? it really only required sockets, SIGIO, setitimer + basic POSIX file io
<klange> My socket implementation is surprisingly new, and still rather incomplete; I definitely don't have a SIGIO (I do have a poll-alike), no itimers, and I'd be wary of my entire POSIX file io stack in general, tbh.
<klange> :)
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<kindofwonderful> show off
<klange> one of the 256-color themes should work nicely in xterm, would look a bit nicer (and actually show syntax highlighting)
<pbx> idk, i have some kind of issue with the tty, thought it was in my console terminal emulator, but neither VIM nor bim work correctly, even in xterm
<pbx> bim's usable, but VIM has huge cursor movement issues
<klange> Interesting. Bad character conversion somewhere, maybe?
<pbx> for now everything should be just ascii
<pbx> haven't bothered with unicode, as the boring old european i am
<GeDaMo> Something affecting control characters?
* pbx 's kidding, even his name has a non 7-bit asci char
<GeDaMo> Something something termcap?
<pbx> GeDaMo: could be
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<klange> I don't use termcap (and neither does vim, it uses terminfo), and I don't have any necessary quirks for real xterms (only optional features)
<klange> Plus I wouldn't expect vim to encounter database-related issues in a real xterm. Hence I'd suspect something at the tty layer.
<pbx> ah, that "could be" was about control chars
<pbx> vim+ncurses shouldn't have any issue with xterm, no
<klange> yeah, they should be best friends
<pbx> what c library do you use these days, klange
<klange> mine :D
<klange> ditched newlib back in 2018, been clawing my way back up ever since
<pbx> i should do that some time too
<pbx> soo many hobbys to balance
<pbx> so much overlap too: got an electron microscope a while ago: https://twitter.com/peterbjornx/status/1467598492650586112 , wanted to upgrade it's brain. turns out: custom 6809 rtos with preemptive multitasking and everything. fun stuff, porting that to a modern arm micro
<bslsk05> ​twitter: <peterbjornx> Got the SEM off the pallets and properly set up, and @dev_console did some wonderful cable management. ␤ Everything seems to have survived transport, including the EDS ␤ detector. Again, many thanks to @Boehri2 for helping us crate it safely. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF31CruXsAMdsBi.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF31C8lXwAELCXJ.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF31DNfXoAAIWWu.jpg
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<bslsk05> ​llvm-cs.pcc.me.uk: lib/CodeGen/MachineBlockPlacement.cpp
<heat_> hehe blockchain
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<kindofwonderful> ban evader ?
<kindofwonderful> :)
<gog> hi
<heat> hel
<heat> lo
<gog> what's shakin
<heat> my bum
<heat> srsly its shaking on its own and im kinda concerned
<j`ey> heat: fixed my stack corruption btw, I broke CoW accidentally
<heat> j`ey, LOL?
<heat> how do you break CoW accidentally?
<bslsk05> ​'The Blues Brothers (1980) - Shake a Tail Feather Scene (4/9) | Movieclips' by Movieclips (00:03:16)
<j`ey> heat: always mark pages as writable :P
<heat> oh you!
<j`ey> c'est la vie
<gog> oops
<heat> it's very funny how linux vm relies on the page tables for a lot of stuff
<heat> which is totally not how the "other OSes" work
<j`ey> you mean it reads the page tables to find stuff out?
<heat> yup
<heat> the whole CoW system is based on page tables for instance
<heat> they also use a bunch of the "ignored" bits to stash some information
<heat> when I mean "the CoW system is based on page tables", i mean that it relies specifically on its state instead of saving it somewhere else
<heat> if a mapping is writeable and MAP_PRIVATE, and the page is marked read-only, this is a CoW page and we're supposed to CoW it
<heat> if a mapping is writeable and MAP_SHARED, and the page is WP, this is a shared mapping and we're supposed to trigger writeback on this and make it writeable
<heat> it basically uses the page tables for stuff other than "make the MMU page fault", it uses it as a state machine of sorts
<j`ey> whats the pros/cons do you think?
<heat> it may not be portable
<heat> it also plays around a bit with UNIX vm
<heat> a CoW shared mapping is not a thing, so that state is eliminated
<bslsk05> ​elixir.bootlin.com: pgtable_types.h - arch/x86/include/asm/pgtable_types.h - Linux source code (v6.0.2) - Bootlin
<heat> here's some funny flags they use
<heat> that userfaultfd WP flag must be to distinguish the mapping state from any POSIX CoW/WP thing
<j`ey> I feel like the arm64 stuff isn't exactly like this
<j`ey> but im not too well versed sooo
<heat> heat and the gang goes read arm64 vm code
<bslsk05> ​elixir.bootlin.com: pgtable-prot.h - arch/arm64/include/asm/pgtable-prot.h - Linux source code (v6.0.2) - Bootlin
<heat> there it is
<j`ey> ok yeah true ive seen that one, didnt look exactly what it was for
<j`ey> but I mean.. PTEs have bits reserved for software use sooo
<heat> nothing escapes ignored bit fuckery
<heat> i think this means any arch without 4 available bits is not linux-portable
<j`ey> oh no my zx spectrum wont run linux
<heat> i wonder, do these bits require break-before-make?
<j`ey> dont think so, would have to double check
<j`ey> i thought BBM was really for block->page mappings
<heat> i can imagine all these things would be cached in the TLB and then just modified and written back
<heat> hm?
<heat> these are for page mappings
<gog> i'm willing to believe that the TLB doesn't cache the ignored bits
<gog> but i have no idea how to test it
<j`ey> heat: I mean on arm64, i thought break before make only was when you were splitting up block mappings?
<j`ey> oh wait, maybe im confusing something
<gog> nah invalidate the tlb and then set the ignored bits is what he means i think
<j`ey> (I was thinking of FEAT_BBM which allows you to skip break before make in some cases)
<heat> i'm relatively sure you're required to do BBM on a bunch of shit
<heat> o' geist of the depths, show us the way
* gog does the summoning chant
<j`ey> ooga booga
<heat> is this the satanic ritual you were talking about?
<gog> similar
<heat> ah yes, not necessary
<bslsk05> ​www.slideshare.net: XPDS16: Keeping coherency on ARM - Julien Grall, ARM
<heat> nice slide deck tho
<j`ey> ah page 17
<heat> everybody gangsta until IMPLEMENTATION DEFINED shows up
<mjg_> :)
<heat> who are you and what did you do with mjg
<heat> is this the linux one now
<mjg_> so as i was saying, linux is a great kernel
<j`ey> it is
<gog> IDB, UB, whatever. i just wanna grill god damn it
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<heat> ok fuggit
<heat> IM PORTING X11
<zid> To freebsd?
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<heat> fuck no
<zid> poor freebsd, forever without pixels
<heat> fuck em
<zid> we can get it some pixels for christmas maybe
<heat> no
<heat> they don't deserve pixels
<zid> Only like 7, nothing extravagant
<heat> aw why does it depend on so much shit
<heat> this is nasty
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<heat> i'm brainrotting porting stupid software with long ass dependency chains
<GeDaMo> Pfft! Just write your own X server :P
<zid> heat is bad as OSdev GeDaMo don't shame him
<heat> noty
<zid> he thinks osdev is to copy what other people did, sometimes literally by copy pasting
<zid> that's just the way he is
<heat> i write the budget linus
<zid> I am budget ask jeeves
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<heat> hey jeeves
<heat> when will wayland overtake x11
<kindofwonderful> never
<geist> heat: hmm, that's a good question
<geist> note you only really get into BBM stuff with breaking up large pages and A & D bits, if you're not using either of those you dont need it yet
<geist> but the atomicw riteback of an A or D bit i do wonder how it does the CAS of that with ignored bits
<geist> i doubt they copy the user bits into the TLB
<heat> yeah
<heat> you can change them and not BBM
<geist> probably it just does a partial CAS. as in it loads it and only tests that the cached bits are the same and then writes it back
<geist> FEAT_BBM is a newer feature that makes it more explicit when you do/dont have to break it up
<geist> but it's like 8.4 so i haven't gotten that excited about it
<pbx> heat?
<pbx> *what does it depend on?
<pbx> for me it was just the xorg tarballs (yes, since they split it up its a lot of em)
<heat> libxcb, libx11, xorg-xkbcomp, xorgproto, xtrans, pixman until now
<pbx> thats all part of xorg though
<heat> sure?
<heat> these are all individual packages
<pbx> they split it into a nightmare
<pbx> used to be one big thing
<heat> with their own slightly different build systems
<heat> some (maintained packages) have meson, others have autoconf (AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH)
<heat> and the autoconf layout changes slightly
<pbx> (i cheated and grabbed the last autoconf only version)
<heat> and i need to patch FUCKING LIBTOOOOOOOOOOOOL
<pbx> (i have a ports tool for that)
<heat> meson is so much better
<heat> it's ridiculous
<kindofwonderful> are you gys familliar with X11 ?
<kindofwonderful> guys
<kindofwonderful> it's not osdev :)
<pbx> porting it is :)
<heat> ?
<kindofwonderful> pbx: porting X11? may the phoss will be with you
<GeDaMo> osdev is a personal journey, it means different things to different people
<heat> GeDaMo, i'm slowly regressing into monke
<geist> very cool. i should hack on my user space bits more
<heat> lkuser is waiting
<heat> :)
<geist> kinda stuck in newlib hell too. thinking of switching to musl, but then... that's a fair amount of work
<pbx> geist: same, same
<geist> but honesty dont feel like writing yet another libc from scratch
<kindofwonderful> pbx: as i said, be strong
<heat> musl good
<heat> well, "good" ;)
<heat> don't try to read it!
<geist> yeah i was mostly reasonably happy with it's relatively low tricky build system stuff and the fact that it'd be *relatively* easy to port it
<geist> despite it being highly linux centric
<kindofwonderful> let me understand, musl is equivalent of glibc ?
<kindofwonderful> equivalent by concept
<pbx> newlib is easy to port so far as microcontroller level features go
<pbx> start becoming more of a full unix? tough luck, ifdef hell everywhere
<geist> yeah i had trouble with adding locking and whatnot. it's only basically internally locked
<geist> glibc is theoretically much more portable. i really should give it a proper go
<geist> but it's just such a huge project
<kindofwonderful> i want to do osdev but i don't know whwere to start ..
<geist> probably the right thing to do there is cut off most of it and turn more and more pieces on as you need it
<kindofwonderful> all i know is C to some extent buti can't make anything useful out of it
<geist> instead of trying to get the whole thing going
<kindofwonderful> i feel like i missing piecs of the puzzle
<kindofwonderful> and i don't know what
<kindofwonderful> what advice can you give me
<heat> i dont know if you can cut off glibc parts
<geist> well maybe stuff like the locale bits, etc
<j`ey> kindofwonderful: write none OS code
<geist> and all the socket parts, etc until you have it going
<geist> iirc it's roughly directory based, so possible you can generally just lave parts out of the build system and then add them back in
<kindofwonderful> j`ey: can you elaborate please ?
<j`ey> kindofwonderful: dont try to do osdev if you only know C to some extent and cant make anything useful
<geist> and if you want to osdev but you have no intrinsic idea of what to do, then it's probably not the right project for you. generally folks at least have an idea like 'i want to write an os' when they get into osdev
<geist> but you, i think you're just doing it because you *think* it's a thing you're supposed to do
<geist> or it somehow makes you cooler or something
<kindofwonderful> i can't make anything useful because i don't know what problem to solve
<geist> it does not. it's just a huge gigantic topic
<geist> i've been doing it for 25 years and it just doesn't stop
<heat> it's e t e r n a l t o r t u r e
<geist> pretty much. self flagellation with bootstraps
<kindofwonderful> geist: ok, advice ?
<geist> did we not just tell you advice?
<geist> my guess is it's simply not what you want to hear so you're going to ignore it and keep asking
<kindofwonderful> j`ey gave me an advice .. start with non OS code
<kindofwonderful> ok
<kindofwonderful> what are you offering ?
* geist headddesks
<heat> hahahahahaha
<j`ey> lol
<geist> there's no good advice for someone that says 'i have no idea what i want to do' other than go figure it out
<heat> yeah
<heat> you either do it, or you don't
<geist> i mean maybe there's some life coaching that could steer you into the right direction but no one here wants to do it
<kindofwonderful> let me check if im reading this correctly
<geist> if yo uthink you want to do osdev but otherwise can't even make the simple connection of 'if you want to do osdev you should start by trying to write an os'
<geist> then... i dont think theres much help there
<geist> *or* (and much more likely) you're going about it for the wrong reason
<ThinkT510> kindofwonderful: if you are looking for suggestions then why not do an intel 8080 disassembler? Here is a fun article for you: https://briancallahan.net/blog/20210407.html
<bslsk05> ​briancallahan.net: Brian Robert Callahan
<geist> ie, you're doing it because you think you need to do it, or trying to prove to everyone you're cool, or some nonsense like that
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<kindofwonderful> by saying "maybe there's some life coaching ..." you saying that my situation is so bad that someone MIGHT help me ?
<gog> osdev is like smoking, it's terrible for your health and it makes you look cool
<heat> it does not make you look cool
<geist> but seriously one last answer: if you want to do osdev, then start writing a fucking os
<gog> :(
<heat> normal people smell your breath and see that you stink
<geist> it's what everyone does. it's the obvious answer, if its not pleasing to you then dont do it
<heat> nerds love it
<heat> yeah write the operating system, or dont
<geist> if you're incapable of doing it then move on to something you are. wallowing in pity that you can't do it helps no one and alienates you because no one wants to hear it
<geist> (tough love #osdev answer variant 4.7)
<geist> (sometimes this kicks em out of it)
<gog> i'm incapable but i still believe i can learn :P
<geist> and you're not whining about it!
* geist pets the gog
* gog prr
<heat> you're not incapable lmao
<gog> i told my boss i code sometimes for fun and he called me a nerd
<heat> you wrote a thing
<heat> and then more things
<geist> yeah totally
<gog> nobody lets me self-deprecate
<gog> i can have small amounts of self-hate as a treat
<heat> ok
<heat> you useless fuck
<gog> lmao
<gog> i said self-hate
<heat> no
<heat> everyone hate or no one hate
<gog> fine i'll learn to tolerate myself
<kindofwonderful> thanks for the tip boys
<geist> start with a tutorial or something and see wha tyou can get done
<gog> in seriousness like just coding things is fun
<heat> boyz II men
<gog> doesn't have to be an OS
<Ermine> smoking helps you with bass voice
<heat> totes
<heat> you can write firmware
<geist> haha i had a cough the other day and woke up with some crap in my throat and was temporarily a contrabass
<gog> i wrote a text editor and a video player and an archive program
<geist> was super cool, could go down a whole octave lower
<heat> there are multiple ways to be miserable
<gog> it was all just Qt stuff i glued together
<heat> that's bcuz ur a qt
<Ermine> gog: you cool
<gog> eee
<kindofwonderful> wow that's too much noise for #osdev and i didn't even started
<heat> the ladies love this one
<gog> technically i wrote two text editors because i used to play with wxwidgets
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you?
<kindofwonderful> you are the best of men
<gog> Ermine: yes :)
* Ermine pets gog
<geist> gosh trying to think of that rock band in the 90s with the super low voice
<kindofwonderful> gog: you said you wrote a video player right ?
<geist> i think he died later
<gog> it's not impressive
<kindofwonderful> doesn't matter i have a question
<gog> you can hook together some qt components and make one really fast
<gog> ok
<heat> gog what's the meaning of life
<heat> that's my question
<gog> fuck money, get bitches
<heat> are you a hip hop artist
<kindofwonderful> once you decided that you want to write a video player ( i assume you have 0 knowledge of how to before ) how did you start the journey ? i mean how did you know what components make video player ?
<gog> i wish
<gog> kindofwonderful: i read the Qt docs but i also had a strong understanding of object-oriented programming
<gog> and i learned how to do OOP by just like
<geist> Type O Negative! that was it
<gog> doing tutorials and writing small things myself
<gog> just toys
<gog> not even seriosu programs
* Ermine got overwhelmed with rm(1)
<kindofwonderful> ok so it's all about getting more and more info online until you better see the picture in later pprojects
<gog> it's also about experimenting with programming more
<heat> Ermine, rm is deceptively hard
<gog> i have never tried to write an implementation of rm iirc
<heat> particularly, -r
<gog> i wrote a bunch of others
<heat> it's not hard to fuck up, but it's not hard to get right
<gog> i wrote cat, echo, cut
<kindofwonderful> gog: thanks
<gog> i started on find
<gog> find is wacky af
<heat> find is a bitch
<heat> find is the least trivial one
<Ermine> nobody likes find
<Ermine> ls has a big number of options
<kindofwonderful> at this moment
<kindofwonderful> im leaving the chat and start to think of something useful to do
<gog> doesn't even have to be useful
<kindofwonderful> root. over
<gog> not every endeavor has to serve a purpose
<geist> yeah sometimes you just hack for fun because it's 10pm and nothign is on TV
<gog> exactly
<gog> sometimes i have an idea and just write something and see if it fleshes out
<geist> right
<gog> most of the time it doesn't
<gog> and that's fine
<gog> sometimes i learn something i didn't anticipate
<heat> sometimes you hack because you're way too invested in your project you spent an unimaginable number of hours on
<gog> there's also that
<geist> to a lot of folks, me included, the process is more interesting than the end result. i kinda dont like 'finishing' things, because it means you can't work on it anymore
<gog> the crushing weight of your own genius
<gog> geist: yes, agree
<gog> nothing is ever finished
<geist> but the converse of that is if the process isn't any fun it completely destroys the desire to work on it anymore
<gog> even the self is something continuously created
<geist> so it has a dark side, hard to finish things if it's not fun anymore (or if it's say for work and the process/structure/etc at work has sucked the fun out of it)
<gog> geist: that apaplies to the self too XD
* Ermine also has severe productivity issues
<gog> my productivity is either prodigious or none at all tbh
<geist> i really admire folks that can just sit down and do stuff, even if it's un-fun
<gog> i mean i do it at work because it pays me money
<gog> :P
<geist> being able to turn it on and off at will
<geist> yah but i mean do good, productive work, even if it's un-fun. or maybe they're dying inside and just dont verbalize it. i dunno
<gog> idk most of the developers i know can't really keep a secret. if they don't like something they will say so :P
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<heat> nah
<heat> plenty of people can just stfu
<heat> i think osdev actually really attracts really opinionated people
<heat> :P
<gog> fair
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<heat> something about this cronic NIH syndrome is common to people with "strong" opinions
<gog> well, obviously my way is the right way
<heat> :100:
<zid> heat where is the uranium in this factorio
<zid> I can't find it
<heat> iraq
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<heat> oops
<heat> george w bush took his internet down
<heat> my bad
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<zid> libera pls
<geist> i think in my case its an ends to a means: writing a kernel or a os is a way to justify writing low level code, which i fundamentally like doing much more than high level stuff
<geist> it's an excuse
<zid> heat where is the uranium in this factorio map, I can't find any
<heat> <heat> iraq
<zid> I don't have an iraq
<heat> sometimes the real iraq is the friends we make along the way
<heat> geist, yeah totes
<heat> high level is BORING
<zid> I don't like osdev
<zid> I like writing low-level code
<gog> low level code is neat
<zid> sometimes osdev lets you do that
<geist> you should run your base off of the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
<heat> but what's "low level code" here?
<zid> I need uranium-238 to make purple tech cards though :(
<geist> in this case it's mostly that there's nothing lower level
<geist> but stuff like setting up and using the cpu at the base programmers level
<geist> ie exceptions, managing irqs, etc etc
<geist> that i find just terribly fun even 25-30 years after i started doing it the first time
<zid> Programming a VCR > Taping episodes of golden girls
* geist tells you a St Olaf story
<heat> i swear to god
<sbalmos> sounds like something Node-related? ;)
<heat> i'm on 11 rn
<heat> no, it's xorg-xserver
<sbalmos> close enough
<heat> it's somehow, worse
<zid> I tried to build mesa on windows once
<heat> i wanted to port node and I got v8 but i couldn't bother with their stupid python + gyp build system
<zid> I got 8 build systems deep
<heat> there's a package here with a config.sub from 2006
<heat> you know
<heat> i should have gone with weston
<heat> but the sunk cost would be too much
<gog> golden girls was based and redpilled
<gog> just sayin
<zid> which one is red
<zid> woke or incel
<gog> woke, we're claiming it
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<zid> I found some uranium, it's about a billion away ofc though..
<gog> start pumping out solar panels
<zid> I need the ore to make tech cards in this one :(
<zid> can't skip
<gog> oh what mod?
<zid> krastorio
<gog> neat
<gog> how bad are the biters by the uranium
<gog> i guess if it's a long way away pretty bad
<zid> Playing on peaceful cus lazy
<gog> o
<zid> biters are just annoying, not actually interesting, to me
<zid> unless you're playing on a deathworld and they actually do something, you just take a shotgun and blast every base within visible range at start of game then ignore
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<geist> `exec nice $SHELL` is my new jam
<geist> that way my builds and whatnot dont completely drag the system down
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<mjg_> linux promised they would not
<heat> we should take out the guy who created libtool
<zid> to lunch?
<heat> maybe the movies
<heat> a nice romantic date
<mjg_> only one person returns from
<heat> does anyone want to upstream my system to config.sub
<CompanionCube> heat: there used to be packages for individual xorg protocols
<CompanionCube> but then someone rolled up them up into xorgproto
<mjg_> heat: port xfree86
<heat> mjg_, im doing that dumbdumb
<heat> why do you think i'm so pissed off
<heat> this is giving me crippling sadness
<CompanionCube> hasn't that been switched to meson or something?
<heat> great question
<heat> yes and no
<zid> okay back, got distracted, I just saw *either* the world's largest spider, or a huge mouse, out of the corner of my eye
<zid> and I am not sure which and I cannot find it
<heat> some packages use meson, most use autoconf
<heat> some even use 2006 autoconf
<heat> it truly is great
<mjg_> heat: what? xfree86 and not xorg?
<CompanionCube> is it really autoconf if you don't have random outdated generated files in the repository
<mjg_> xfree86 is next level
<heat> mjg_, ah no this is xorg
<heat> xfree86 is old stuff
<heat> here's a remarkably stupid configure options for you people
<heat> --enable-malloc0returnsnull
<mjg_> --fuck=this
<heat> they cannot perform this test in cross compilation and for whatever reason they just error out
<heat> they don't assume a safe default they just, "eh, cross compile, errororororor"
<mjg_> if one bothers to check this there is no safe default
<heat> this is mindnumbingly braindead
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<heat> at least they have a configure switch for it I guess?
<heat> everything that skips a config.site is a win
<zid> It's a fucking mouse, I seed it
<pbx> heat: tip, --disable-xorg, --enable-xvfb
<pbx> allows you to get the core stuff building and verified before porting either xorg or kdrive
<heat> 1) i'm on meson you PEASANT
<heat> 2) i wanna get xorg already
<pbx> sure. but they're part of the same repo
<zid> heat did you set a mouse on me
<zid> is this revenge for something
<heat> yes
<zid> I have 0 idea how the hell there's a mouse in here
<zid> I'm not on the ground floor, my room is a solid concrete shell, and there's two cats between me and downstairs
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<pbx> zid: the maybe cat brought it in?
<zid> super unlikely, I think the answer is spontaneous generation
<zid> the thing louis pasteur erroneously discredited
<zid> There was a mouse shaped hole in my room, and half a sausage roll, therefore the universe saw fit to generate a mouse
<zid> out of the aether
<zid> I'm awaiting my barnacle goose
<heat> OMG ITS BUILDING!!!1!!1!
<klange> ugh, i'm gonna have to do something like port gtk to keep up with y'all running x
<zid> And run zelda.
<zid> To beat both me and heat, you need to run my emulator in a gtk window.
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<klange> which zelda?
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<klange> I had a zsnes port at some point, so I could do LTTP
<heat> i've never been more certain that xorg is catshit wrapped in dogshit
<zid> LA
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<zid> The only thing my OS does is map my emu + LA package to 2MB then run it
<zid> syscalls are for noobs
<heat> >/* System is BSD-like */
<heat> #ifdef CSRG_BASED
<heat> say what
<heat> i've seen like 5 files with multiple copyright headers
<zid> Have you considered adding a barnacle goose
<heat> no
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<klange> In Xorg? There's stuff from so many sources in there that makes plenty of sense. Though why they aren't just separate files, who knows.
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<heat> yeah
<heat> it's pretty disgusting
<heat> i should've ported weston instead
<klange> Maybe one day I'll add Wayland support to Yutani.
<heat> that would probably save you a good bit of work
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<heat> fuckin built
<heat> EASY
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<heat> i need unix sockets now
<heat> finally
<zid> That took waaaay too long to figure out
<zid> train signals are dumb and don't make sense
<gog> they make a lot of sense
<zid> I have to add 4 nonsensical stops to make it do what I want
<gog> what
<zid> and the only error is 'no path'
<klange> the train needs a break every so often
<gog> the advance signals on the right of the entering branches and a regular signal on the right of the exiting branch
<gog> wait no
<gog> that'd deadlock
<zid> anyway, time to make concrete
<moon-child> factorio?
<heat> pbx, how are u getting keyboard and mouse?
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<klange> pbx plz gib iso thx
<heat> i should use evdev
<heat> ugh
<heat> im really a shitty linux vendor
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<klange> so shitty you don't even provide linux?
<heat> basically yeah
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