phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unofficial KISS Linux community channel | https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space | post logs or else | song of the day https://yewtu.be/watch?v=S81bNIK4MaE
<midfavila> nah like i'm saying i don't know about the situation outside of canada
<midfavila> i wouldn't want to speak on it
<midfavila> i only know the basics
<midfavila> i just know that, historically speaking, canada is gigafucked rn
<midfavila> 's all
<il> Barring incompetence edging on malevolence, Canada will probably be fine in the longer term. That doesn't diminish the concerns about the costs in the short term, though.
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<sewn> are you ilt
<il> is that someone else's nick?
<il> nope, I'm not ilt
<sad_plan> sewn: I was thinking the same thing
<sewn> lmao
<riteo> yea I got confused too for a sec
<il> Is it a bad thing lol
<sewn> maybe yes maybe not
<riteo> didn't tkae too long to figure that out though by the different writing style
<riteo> nah it it not
<riteo> again, you did not impersonate them
<sewn> riteo: im babier
<riteo> it's just that said user already shortened their alias multiple times so it wasn't that weird to assume that you were them
<il> riteo: I meant more whether being mistaken for that person would be a bad thing... I.e. is ilt a good chatter? hah
<riteo> sewn: you bby!!!
<il> ah, naw. this nick is just my initials
<sad_plan> riteo: thats why theres no use deleting everything, only to return to the same community under a different nick. people will see through you regardless :(
<il> like the old unix sysadmins and users, but I don't have a middle name
<riteo> il: I think it's been a while since they've chatted but yea I think they were a fine fella
<riteo> contributed a lot
<sad_plan> il: ilt isnt here too much. but he says he read logs, so his silently keeping track of us. judging us lol
<riteo> sad_plan re writing style: yea, its a very strong identificator. There are tools to mangle that up though
<riteo> also I think that figuring out people from their style is it's kinda of a skill you can learn
<sad_plan> riteo: well sure. but I cant help but feel that complicates chatting on irc by a LOT :p
<riteo> why that?
<sad_plan> it is
<riteo> I think that it makes it easier, since I don't need avatars or stuff to understand who's saying what
<riteo> at least in context
<sad_plan> wont you have to run everything through this tool as an additional step?
<riteo> yeah
<sad_plan> as opposed to just write in the chat like usuall
<riteo> I mean if you're _paranoid_ that's a choice
<sewn> riteo: it might spew out stuff that you did not intend to say
<il> What do you think complicates chatting on IRC? Attempting to identify people by their chatting idiosyncracies?
<sad_plan> well yeah, sure. we could live in the woods as a luddite because we're paranoid aswell, but I dont see that happening any time soon :p
<riteo> sewn: yea but if your life depends on it that might be a fine tradeoff
<il> Oh, trying to remove stylistic identity markers from your own writing... Yeah, waste of effort IMO.
<riteo> also, pareto rule or smth. There are a LOT of low-hanging fruits that contribute a lot more to bad privacy
<il> You could just translate it to 5 random languages and then back to English. Literally post undecipherable babble.
<sad_plan> I suppose you could always just be super strict when writing, and learn new words. i.e. use uk english instead of american english. or some other dialect
<il> sad_plan: mix it up
<sad_plan> il: lol, great plan
<riteo> I mean lately there's a big fad around weird linguistic regugitators
<riteo> I think we got better at this
<sad_plan> il even better I suppose. someone would probabl catch on to this and ask about it instead though
<sewn> riteo: As sad_plan said, I also don't understand why you go back to people who know what they're doing just because you want to be someone else.
<sewn> translated through 6 languages
<il> sad_plan: with privacy, trying to hide everything is much harder than coming up with an alternate identity and inhabiting it.
<sewn> literally the same text
<sewn> wait no this is not the same text lmao
<sad_plan> I suppose so
<sewn> went from "who already knew you" to "know what theyre doing"
<riteo> sewn: sorry I'm having trouble parsing that message
<sewn> haha me too
<riteo> you mean... like why did I bring up the style thing?
<riteo> because sad_plan was like "that's bad [that people can recognize your style]", more or less
<riteo> I'd never recommmend using that stuff
<riteo> unless you got your stuff super-duper-ultra-tight, you hate yourself and your life depends on it
<riteo> which is like, nobody, practically
<sewn> wait what are you talking about
<riteo> sewn: I'm talking about 'riteo: As sad_plan said, I also...'
<il> sewn: obscuring one's writing style to minimize the chance of someone identifying you by it
<sewn> why would you need to do that in your life though? to hide from people on the internet?
<il> But riteo is saying that most people's threat profile doesn't justify that amount of effort
<il> sewn: that's riteo's point
<il> for most people, it's more effort than it's worth
<sewn> threat profile..?
<il> sewn: threat profile is basically how at risk you are, it's the motivating factor for security
<sewn> oh hmm i see
<riteo> yea like who are you protecting against
<il> If you're a spy in a hostile country, your threat profile is high
<il> which motivates extreme security measures
<il> which would otherwise be extremely inconvenient, for example...
<sewn> but realistically speaking would someone like that be writing in places and interacting with people to begin with, other than ones that they already know?
<il> Well, you have to inhabit some identity to exist
<il> But, as I said. Making up a new identity and inhabiting it is easier than just trying to hide everything that makes you you
<il> So that's what most people who do that do... They come up with a believable person and inhabit it.
<sewn> must suck to live like that
<riteo> yea
<il> So, if I wanted to deceive everyone here about my identity, saying I'm australian and then watching a bunch of australian TV shows and reading a bunch of contemporary australian writing and emulating it would be easier than just plain hiding everything that makes me identifiable.
<il> No good reason to do that in my case, though
<sad_plan> il: I think the best way to avoid someone getting infomation about you, is simply not giving out any data at all. or atleast the least amount possible
<sad_plan> many people care so much about old photos, documents, and what not. which they saved somewhere. if you have no such thing, theres nothing to loose either, or nothing for someone else to grab
<sad_plan> thieves cant steal your money if you dont have any :p
<il> sad_plan: sure, but this limits your agency as well...
<il> Having no money means no one can hurt you, but also that you're limited to a very specific kind of life... Or maybe more appropriately called survival.
<sad_plan> well sure. it was mostly meant as a metaphor
<sad_plan> another example would be TSA agesnt cant siphon your data when they snatches your phone at the border, if you have no phone at all, or an empty one. both might make them more suspicious though :p
<il> sad_plan: eh, I approve of that
<il> I really dislike border police and all kinds of enforcement there. It's one of the places where state power is hard to ignore, your privacy and goals are secondary to the interests of the state or whatever way you want to put it.
<il> So one way I deal with it is by bringing as little as possible with me when I cross borders. I wish I could go without a phone and a computer, though.
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<sad_plan> yeah I knoew. australia has really done it on their end. if you get flagged and put aside for a check, the border police might find it too suspcious that you either have an empty phone, or no phone. at that point they could infact denyyou entry. which is insane to me. they also have key disclosure laws, and iirc, can toss you in jail for couple years if you fail to disclose keys to encrypted
<sad_plan> devices they deem neccessary to asess you
<il> Yep, goes on a list of countries I don't care to visit
<sad_plan> luckily, this isnt the standard of which countries conduct themselves across the globe. but some are indeed getting increasingly tougher on the border
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<asimov> hi
<asimov> is eiwd working on kiss?
<asimov> it seems to not get network
<asimov> i used the same config that i used in the past
<sewn> are you sure you have working firmware
<sewn> and wdym by "not get network"
<asimov> yeah
<asimov> wlan0 appaers in ifconfig
<asimov> and it connect to
<asimov> the handshake is maded
<asimov> but no wireless
<asimov> anyone here is using it?
<sewn> speak less share logs
<asimov> wait a minute
<il> very humble nickname
<sewn> il: ?
<asimov> the eiwd logs
<sewn> seems ipv6 is failing
<asimov> need to enable it?
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<asimov> anyone with an idea of what is possible the error?
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<il> sewn: last name of a writer whose first name is Isaac
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<Skyrix> Hey everyone, I think gcc 15 broke a few things, nano wasn't compiling with it (worked with 14) and now util-linux isn't compiling with it too. I came a few days ago and sewn asked if linux-headers was installed, which wasn't, and I thought installing it repaired the process but actually it didn't. FYI i'm running everything from a fresh chroot
<Skyrix> with everything up-to-date, with the latest community tarball.
<Skyrix> Could someone try to compile it just to see if the problem was on my side? (maybe doing it inside a chroot is a problem, sorry kind of a noob)
<Skyrix> I'm having a ``./tools/all_errnos: not found``
<fultilt> Skyrix: I tried GCC 15 the other day (it has some fixes to build much faster on RISC-V). I didn't see exactly what you're seeing (and I'm using KX, not KISS), but I had "make" fail to build, something about a double-declaration of getenv(). I didn't look into it.
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<fultilt> I got "sway" running on my OrangePi RV2 (RISC-V based) under KX today. Not that any of you care, but I was very happy about that. Now if I can just get GPU support to work...
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