<kris_>
the only time i can see it being reasonable is when you're not encrypting it
<midfavila>
i'm just using nilfs and jfs these days
<midfavila>
they work fine
<kris_>
i'm xfs on literally everything
<kris_>
lvm if i need things like raid
<midfavila>
oh
<midfavila>
that reminds me
<midfavila>
good news
<midfavila>
my desktop is getting shipped today
<kris_>
oh?
<kris_>
what kinda hardware did you get
<midfavila>
it's my old one
<midfavila>
i had to leave it with a friend when i moved
<midfavila>
it's a dual xeon machine
<midfavila>
s2600cw2r mainboad with dual 2670v3 cpus, an LSI disk interface, a couple 3TB SAS drives, and some SLC SSDs for root and home. plus i have a wx5100 gpu and xonar stx for sound
<midfavila>
it's a little dated at this point but still plenty
<kris_>
i mean that's 24 cores and 48 threads
<midfavila>
yeye
<midfavila>
it's a dream for KISS
<midfavila>
VMs and stuff too
<kris_>
i can see it being usable for kiss but not for a lot of modern things
<kris_>
because they are slow cores
<midfavila>
just not a multimedia powerhouse
<midfavila>
well
<midfavila>
tbf my laptop uses an imx8mq
<kris_>
and icky gaming etc but games do not handle multiple cpus well
<midfavila>
which is at times obnoxiously slow on the net
<midfavila>
or, well, the web
<kris_>
i like my desktop chip a lot
<kris_>
core ultra 7 265k
<kris_>
i feel like it's spoiled me though with how obscenely fast compiles are
* midfavila
compiles his entire distro in five minutes
<midfavila>
>.>
<midfavila>
idk i don't think it's a spoil-able thing
<midfavila>
esp if you use mostly smaller software
<kris_>
eh
<kris_>
my 10700k + 32gb of 3200mt memory was too slow to do a lot of things
<kris_>
i wouldnt have even considered something like kiss on that
<midfavila>
idk what you're doing then
<midfavila>
i used kiss on a regular old haswell i5 for a long time without any issues
<kris_>
i mean maybe if you're not frequently recompiling everything but we both know we are
<midfavila>
ye and i didn't have any issues
<midfavila>
sounds like you need to meditate my dude
<midfavila>
:P
<kris_>
i do actually, i used to for about an hour per day and lost that habit
<kris_>
like it used to be a scheduled thing
<midfavila>
there you go
<midfavila>
compile time is meditate time
<kris_>
idk that hardware is just sitting in a box in my closet now
<kris_>
until i discover a valid use for it
<kris_>
right now im keeping it around as kind of a backup incase either my server or desktop has parts that fail
<midfavila>
fair
<kris_>
it's actually quite superior to what's in my server but i dont care enough to swap it
<kris_>
well, "superior"
<kris_>
my server has ECC and the 10700k platform is artificially incompatible with ECC memory
<midfavila>
rip
<midfavila>
my next machine won't even be a PC
<midfavila>
this current machine will go in a closet and run as a server
<midfavila>
then i'll probably build an ARM or RISC-V thin client
<kris_>
ya valid
<midfavila>
and just use that
<kris_>
at some point i want to bring some of whats on my vps in-house
<kris_>
like my irc bouncer
<midfavila>
and like never bother upgrading hardware again unless i have to
<kris_>
but the networking around that is a little weird
<kris_>
id still be proxying it through a vps
<kris_>
still one in europe, at that
<kris_>
right now i don't really have much in the way of chat history because i use sojus in-memory database because my bouncer is on a machine that inherently cant be trusted
<kris_>
even though they can probably just dump memory at any moment they choose
<kris_>
^ a memory dump would be a limited amount of information compared to having the entire database on disk though
<kris_>
and i do use init_on_free=1
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<midfavila>
ngl i don't even care about that stuff, for my own PC
katiiaangel has joined #kisslinux
<midfavila>
it's like
<midfavila>
meh
<katiiaangel>
am i missing it or is tor-browser? thought it was packaged—used to duel boot crux and kiss and might have gotten them confused
<katiiaangel>
*tor-browser not packaged, meh
<midfavila>
that would have been in community
<midfavila>
it might have been
<midfavila>
i've never seen it tho
<katiiaangel>
i thought it used to be but can't find anything about it
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<kris_>
midfavila i care too much about this stuff in general but honestly since i DM people a lot on here and those conversations tend to be kinda private id rather not have them on someone elses computer
<kris_>
of course i'm placing trust in libera still
<kris_>
im more inclined to trust them compared to like discord or some shit though
<midfavila>
>the mods use GAI instead of time management
<midfavila>
trustworthy:tm:
<kris_>
what is GAI
<midfavila>
sort of red herring-y but not a great indicator that they're on top of things
<midfavila>
generative AI
<midfavila>
there was a wallop a while ago that they were going to start using LLMs to respond to user requests for help
<kris_>
im pretty sure what you're thinking of was their april fools joke
<midfavila>
*was* it
<midfavila>
was i pranked
<midfavila>
if i was pranked then i'll admit that i fell for it
<kris_>
void does the same shit fucking constantly
<kris_>
they had an april fools post where it was like "we care about your needs! we're going to be shipping off all of the commands you run on your system to our own servers, so we can get a better idea of what our users need."
<kris_>
and my heart dropped HARD until i realized they do that yearly on april 1st
<kris_>
this years was "void linux enterprise edition"
<midfavila>
honestly the thing for me is that everything's just blending together lately
<midfavila>
i didn't even realise it was put out on the first
<midfavila>
i thought it was just a regular wallop
<midfavila>
i'm gonna go found a monastery and grow onions for a living
<kris_>
i think most people int his channel would share your feelings
<midfavila>
dylan was ahead of the curve
<kris_>
i mean, your normal person isnt pissed off enough to basically maintain their own OS
<kris_>
but for me at least it comes from a place of genuine love for computing
<kris_>
so i dont think i could just go grow onions or something
<midfavila>
i used to like computers
<midfavila>
now i'm ancient and decrepit and cynical
<kris_>
a path many of us take
<midfavila>
and just yell at the kids these days on their damn yikyaks
<midfavila>
doing their default dances
<kris_>
i do wonder how much dylan computes these days
<kris_>
i feel like its not something you just quit
<midfavila>
with their 500000000 stanley mugs
<midfavila>
smdh
<kris_>
yeah i dont understand that type of behavior in general
<kris_>
i cant even begin to explain what about it i dont understand because i just dont understand
<kris_>
it's just a big ball of what
<midfavila>
it's just weh
<kris_>
we really have become old men yelling at the clouds
<midfavila>
usenet needs to be a thing again
<midfavila>
i am literally yelling at the cloud
<midfavila>
so yes
<kris_>
lmao i hadnt thought about that
<kris_>
usenet is only a thing for piracy atp
<il>
that's a wild nick
<kris_>
which is based as hell but still
<midfavila>
nah some newsgroups still have actual conversation
<midfavila>
il: ?
<il>
s.o without the period
<midfavila>
aah
<midfavila>
ping city
<il>
exactly
<kris_>
so my discord group finally made a chat elsewhere
<kris_>
...unfortunately, it's on signal
<kris_>
i don't understand why people like signal so much
<il>
I think signal is preferrable to discord
<midfavila>
neither do i
<midfavila>
i mean yes
<il>
xmpp or irc beats both
<kris_>
it is but it's also annoying because they do things like shut down deblobbed clients
<il>
agreed
<kris_>
their android client at least has google notification system blobs
<kris_>
so its not on fdroid
<kris_>
so its hard for me to get
<midfavila>
they also demand phone numbers
<midfavila>
:\
<il>
Yeah, I know that
<kris_>
i just realized i'm pinging that person over and over
<kris_>
time to avoid that word
<il>
There's a shocking dearth of good chatting/communication solutions in Anno Domini 2025
<kris_>
i like xmpp but they don't because the ios clients are apparently terrible
<midfavila>
>iOS
<midfavila>
there's the problem
<kris_>
my impulsive thoughts tell me to ask "well why did you buy an iphone"
<il>
letters aren't as useless as one might assume, especially if some level of privacy is wanted.
<il>
It is security through obscurity, but security nonetheless
<midfavila>
are we going to start sending chain letters run through a Vignere to each other instead of using irc
<il>
midfavila: I don't know what was the last time you looked at what's available for a phone these days. There are no good options.
<midfavila>
never lmao
<midfavila>
i use a uconsole
<midfavila>
i have for a while
<il>
midfavila: Vignere encoded letters are probably still peak security
<midfavila>
last phone i actually owned and actively used was a blackberry passport
<midfavila>
peak UX
<il>
even better if you don't use OCR-able writing
<il>
so cursive with a shimmering fountain pen ink, something like that lol
<midfavila>
i *do* need to get a new pen
<il>
midfavila: what do you do today? You just don't have a phone?
<midfavila>
my uconsole has a 4g modem with talk/text/data
<il>
I don't even know what a uconsole is
<kris_>
right now im just running a oneplus 8t with lineageos + microg
<midfavila>
it's a stupid little handheld linux computer that looks like a cross between a graphing calculator and game boy
<kris_>
im waiting on linux phones to be a bit more viable hardware wise
<kris_>
the pinephones stink
<kris_>
as do pretty much all pine64 things
<midfavila>
i'm, if you want to be polite, *eccentric* enough to whip one of those out
<kris_>
tbf if i saw someone whip those out i'd probably inquire about it because i bet they're cool as hell
<il>
midfavila: interesting
<il>
kris_: ++ on that
<midfavila>
because like why would i spend a bunch of money on an android that i mostly only use for termux when i can spend like 2-3% of a paycheque on a uconsole and run regular old linux shit
<il>
I wish I didn't need a phone
<midfavila>
i've been working at moving away from phones and PCs and glued together crap in general
<kris_>
i pretty much only use my phone for email, sms, 2fa, irc, discord, and as a camera
<kris_>
so linux phones are already there for me
<kris_>
just not hardware wise
<il>
Well, I wish I had a viable alternative instant communication solution without bringing a laptop along everywhere.
<il>
Or that there was no expectation of instant communication, but that era is gone.
<midfavila>
now I just need to bolt the MNT reform usb webcam to the uconsole's chassis and i'll be set >:D
<kris_>
really i may just get some piece of shit that has decent enough postmarketos support and buy an actual camera
<kris_>
not like my phone does a good job at being a camera anyway
<midfavila>
il: ngl that's just what i tell people
<kris_>
^ it used to but oneplus restricted access to camera hardware if you're not using *their* ROM
<midfavila>
i check my voicemail once a day
<il>
kris_: I mostly use it for podcasts and chatting. Chatting is mostly whatsapp, viber, signal, discord... So no real good alternative to android.
<midfavila>
you can probabl wait
<kris_>
so my photos all look grainy as fuck now because i cant access the entire thing
<midfavila>
if it's urgent, you can email me or IM me
<il>
midfavila: how old are you?
<midfavila>
il: pidgin
<midfavila>
23
<il>
lmao
<midfavila>
i'm serious
* midfavila
sips
<kris_>
the fuck? TIL we're the same age
<il>
pensioner behavior, but you're younger than me
<midfavila>
that's what i use
<il>
god, I'm the oldest one here, then...
<kris_>
i always thought you were a fair bit older than me
<midfavila>
il i do my laundry with a washboard so
<il>
Do you really?
<midfavila>
i'm a fair bit more than pensioner
<midfavila>
yes
<kris_>
that is incredibly based and honestly rational
<midfavila>
lol
<il>
why?
<kris_>
i hate washing machines
<midfavila>
i own three pairs of pants
<il>
I love washing machines
<midfavila>
it's faster
<midfavila>
also my clothes are hemp
<kris_>
yeah i also only have like three pairs of pants
<midfavila>
machines damage them
<kris_>
ive been wearing the same clothes since i was like 14 so
<il>
you're a character lol
<midfavila>
you have no idea il
<kris_>
i dont replace clothes until they're unwearable
<midfavila>
you have no idea
<midfavila>
kris_ get a sewing kit
<midfavila>
learn to sew
<il>
Stop wearing clothes
<kris_>
i'm pretty decent at it actually
<il>
Anyway, do either of you actually run kiss linux
<midfavila>
yes
<il>
what do you use it for
<midfavila>
my regular os lol
<midfavila>
i've used it daily since 2016
<il>
Interesting
<il>
Do you maintain any packages?
<midfavila>
i maintain my own custom distro
<kris_>
il no, i use pretty highly "customized" void linux on everything
<midfavila>
so you could say that
<il>
kris_: that's my chosen path as well
<midfavila>
although i had my disk in my workstation crash so i lost my project the other day
<midfavila>
but i have all my notes so it's just a matter of rebuildingi t
<midfavila>
rebuilding it*
<il>
You had no backup?
<il>
ts ts ts
<midfavila>
nowhere to back it up to qwq
<midfavila>
unfortunately
<kris_>
void is just close enough to what i want to not push me to do something else
<kris_>
it's the **only** distro that is rational to me
<midfavila>
but it's going to take like two seconds to build the distro again once my original machine arrives
<kris_>
kiss is also nice but i dont like calling it a distro
<il>
Yeah, I like to say void is the most BSDesque linux distro
<midfavila>
>slackware
* midfavila
coughs
<kris_>
slackware sucks
<midfavila>
slackware rules fuck you
<il>
why don't you use it then
<midfavila>
i do, at home
<midfavila>
lol
<kris_>
midfavila: taco bell first at least
<midfavila>
taco bell is ass
<midfavila>
i can make better food
<kris_>
..i kinda like taco bell
<midfavila>
taco bell is too greasy and like
<kris_>
food doesnt taste right to me unless its just processed garbage
<midfavila>
slop
<il>
The conversation is degenerating
<midfavila>
il we're actually both LLMs
<kris_>
that we are
<il>
You'd stay on topic better if you were
<midfavila>
lol
<kris_>
oh yeah i ended up writing a replacement for systemd-ukify like a day ago
<kris_>
i dont understand how systemd-ukify can be as fucking huge as it is
<il>
Where did you even buy the uConsole?
<midfavila>
online from the manufacturer
<kris_>
most of it isnt even related to building a UKI, it's all like secure boot signing stuff
<midfavila>
clockworkpi
<midfavila>
i have the r01 model
<midfavila>
but i want to get a cm4 adapter
<midfavila>
so i can fiddle with pine's SoMs
<il>
And what's the battery life, if you've run it off the similar battery pack as a uconsole?
<midfavila>
i'm not sure what the battery life would be with other models. it uses standard 18650 cells so it would depend on the quality of your cells
<midfavila>
i tend to get around 6-8 hours under moderate use
<riteo>
just read the whole log while I was missing and honestly I'm kinda surprised that the average age isn't that high at all
<midfavila>
e.g. with the 4g modem on and browsing the web, listening to music, maybe watching a vdeo
<il>
this implies you earn > 4.5k a month lol
<midfavila>
well okay i was exaggerating
<midfavila>
i wish i did
<midfavila>
my last pay was like 3kCAD which is still good for my area
<midfavila>
i'm hoping to get a fancy government job soonish
<midfavila>
working on certs and shit
<il>
riteo: I'm turning 25 in 1e1 order of magnitude days
<il>
so I'm not much older either, but I'm not very active here.
<kris_>
wheres the link for the log for this channel anyway
<kris_>
i always forget it's logged
<il>
kris_: in the DMs with me
<midfavila>
that should probably be in the channel desc phoebos
<kris_>
il i basically just dont have logs so i lose DMs immediately
<riteo>
friendly reminder that I'm 19
<midfavila>
baby
<riteo>
you are all boomers
<il>
I log everything, I think it's the default behavior of my client
<riteo>
yea I'm bby :33333
<il>
I just didn't turn it off
<kris_>
senpai doesnt have logs for whatever reason
<kris_>
not really anyway
<il>
riteo: you lose the legal right to use that emoticon when you grow a brain, and yours ought to have grown by now.
<il>
kris_: isn't that a bouncer?
<kris_>
nah
<midfavila>
il you'll hate this channel lol
<kris_>
soju will send messages to me that happened while offline
<kris_>
once that happens they're just gone
<riteo>
I'm sorry il you can't stop the ":3" and neither "UwU"
<il>
I know I can't stop it, I can complain about it the whole way, though lol
<midfavila>
riteo you're going to scare them off
<il>
kris_: yeah, soju should at least have the option of keeping logs
<kris_>
it may with the on-disk databases
<riteo>
midfavila: yea you're right, sorry
<riteo>
they're not ready
<kris_>
i havent sorted that out yet because its not running on something i physically have
<il>
midfavila: I've been on freenode and irc longer than riteo has had access to computers, I won't be scared off lol
<riteo>
that seems unlikely
<il>
I'm 6 years your senior, so unless you were on freenode from age of 5, it's likely
<riteo>
I started getting exposed to computers at... 6, 8?
<il>
Yep...
<riteo>
I see
<kris_>
id like to know at what point i signed up for something social
<kris_>
for the first time
<riteo>
well you were bby on the internet too!
<kris_>
i had a myspace account in probably like 2007
<il>
Yeah, there's never a good time to be a child on the internet
<riteo>
we were all bby on the internet
<midfavila>
parents need to be looking after their kids smdh
<riteo>
yea that's true
<midfavila>
BACK IN MY DAY
<kris_>
eh im kinda glad i had absolutely zero restrictions on internet usage
<kris_>
not kinda but just straight up glad
<il>
midfavila: yeah, when I have children, I'll have a subnetwork with 5 websites whitelisted
<riteo>
also my parents actually cared
<il>
and probably more advanced blocking on those sites as well lol
<midfavila>
"when"
<kris_>
my parents only really cared once i got raided by the cops
<il>
wdym when
<riteo>
like, when I started getting internet access my mom put my desktop in the main room
<midfavila>
is when when you get a 100k salary
<il>
are you doubting my virility
<riteo>
so that she could take a look
<midfavila>
no i'm doubting the global economy lol
<riteo>
lmao
<riteo>
that's so 2025
<il>
Making children isn't a science, you don't wait for perfect conditions
<midfavila>
i would wait until i could feed them reliably ngl
<il>
there are no perfect conditions
<midfavila>
food prices are wild rn
<il>
Unless you're a subsaharad african, you most likely can feed hypothetical children
<il>
s/ad/an
<midfavila>
my friends in the maritimes are paying 15 for a gallon of milk
<midfavila>
so
<il>
just don't drink milk
<midfavila>
right
<il>
eggs, potatoes, beans, and water
<midfavila>
and just don't buy eggs
<il>
buy chickens
<midfavila>
when they get too expensive
<midfavila>
right
<midfavila>
buy chickens when you live in an apartment because the minimum income to qualify for a mortgage is close to or in excess of six figures
<midfavila>
don't start down this road :v
<il>
I've heard there's some sort of bird flu or something along those lines impacting the egg production in NA
<midfavila>
only the americans
<kris_>
eggs arent really that expensive where i live
<midfavila>
canada practices supply management because we realise that market solutions usually suck shit
<il>
canadians are americans as well
<kris_>
more expensive than they used to be yeah but its not thaaat bad
<midfavila>
...
<kris_>
its like $6 for a dozen or something
<il>
the non-united americans
<midfavila>
actually don't
* kris_
bounces before this turns into a fire
<il>
lmao
<il>
canada is a north american country, therefore canadians are americans. not an outrageous line of reasoning
<midfavila>
americans == from usa
<il>
kris_: still around double the european prices
<midfavila>
american isn't a blanket term
<midfavila>
smdh
<midfavila>
but also yes europe is wild
<il>
it's a geography term, yeah
<midfavila>
cheaper to live in france or london than fuckin saskatoon
<midfavila>
or fredericton or hamilton or any other smaller city
<il>
midfavila: eh... It would be cheaper if you managed to earn a US or CA salary
<il>
which you can't
<midfavila>
i would earn more in france on minimum wage
<midfavila>
canada's economy is turbofucked
<il>
Damn
<il>
time to move
<midfavila>
our wages have declined about 50% in as many years
<midfavila>
while the cost of living relative to said wage has increased significantly
<kris_>
kinda nuts that the federal minimum wage in the US is still $7.25/hr
<il>
Well, I'd guess that's purchasing power of the average salary
<midfavila>
the median house price for a small home was ~5x median salary
<kris_>
it's over $16 where i live though so
<kris_>
luckily
<midfavila>
now it's 17x
<midfavila>
i saw someone paraphrase it the other day as earning mississippi wages and paying caliornian prices
<midfavila>
:^)
<il>
kris_: eh, a lot of federal minimums are overruled by state laws, so it doesn't necessarily indicate the true state of matters
<kris_>
yeah but it just really depends on where you live
<kris_>
some places you absolutely do get fucked and earn $7.25/hr
<kris_>
and it varies by *city* as well
<midfavila>
>tipped sub-minimum wages
<kris_>
not just state
<il>
Yeah, those are places where it's time to vote with your feet
<il>
the most valuable human resource is the human capital, can't do shit without people...
<midfavila>
i would vote with my feet if i had dual citizenship lol
<il>
midfavila: where'd you go?
<midfavila>
after a couple more years here saving and building a CV i'm fucking off to europe
<midfavila>
probably scotland
<il>
You can move to the local optimum meanwhile
<midfavila>
i'm a filthy monolingual anglophone
<kris_>
idk really the issue here is that we just don't have jobs
<midfavila>
yeah i'm already at the local optimum
<midfavila>
:c
<kris_>
IT jobs? you're funny
<kris_>
even my applications at the grocery store didnt get responses
<il>
midfavila: you can get a job with english in non-english speaking countries
<midfavila>
yeah tech is fucked
<kris_>
just sucks because its the only skill i have
<kris_>
which is really a me issue i guess
<il>
kris_: yeah, i've heard the labour market is fucked, internationally
<midfavila>
il: i would feel bad moving to a non-english country and then speaking english only
<il>
well, at least in my part of europe
<il>
midfavila: no reason
<il>
you'd pay taxes the same way everyone else does, you don't owe them too much more
<il>
I know a few americans, scots, irish men, russians, who live in the city I do and barely speak a lick of the local language
<il>
Live and have lived for years***
<midfavila>
i would have to learn at some point regardless
<midfavila>
if i leave canada i won't go back unless it turns into maple wakanda
<il>
It might, nothing is set in stone
<midfavila>
fucking hate living here
<il>
Eh, you might hate living in other places as well...
<il>
Humans are humans wherever they are
<midfavila>
everything costs an arm and a leg, the entire country is run by 60-70 year olds, and i can't even go to the grocery store without almost dying
<il>
elaborate on teh last one?
<midfavila>
cars
<kris_>
really i might have judged my hometown of <70 people too harshly
<kris_>
things were a lot simpler
<il>
do you walk places instead of drive? lol
<kris_>
i left because no IT jobs, moved to chicago, still no IT jobs
<midfavila>
i cycle
<il>
ah
<il>
yeah
<kris_>
im so excited to get my ebike
<kris_>
i'm about to have *range*
<midfavila>
people here actively attempt to kill you if you cycle
<il>
move to netherlands, it sounds like you'd fit in tbh
<midfavila>
i've considered it
<il>
not just because of cycling, but everything I've heard
<il>
and they're almost 100% anglophone as well
<midfavila>
idk how i'm supposed to feel about that :v
<midfavila>
but fair
<il>
Do you think that's disfavorable? lol
<midfavila>
labour laws are also way stricter in europe
<midfavila>
i went crazy when i heard cashiers get chairs there
<il>
lmao
<midfavila>
you get to *sit*
<kris_>
DUDE IKR
<midfavila>
on the *job*
<il>
They don't in the US?
<kris_>
i had to go to the hospital because i had to stand when i was working retail
<midfavila>
i have had to work 24 hours straight with no breaks or seat before
<kris_>
which i cant do because deformed ankles
<kris_>
and did anyway
<kris_>
il no, you're forced to stand everywhere other than like aldi
<kris_>
because it's "more inviting to the customer"
<midfavila>
ye
<il>
I thought walmart cashier had a little stool
<kris_>
nop you gotta stand
<midfavila>
"professionalism" is like
<kris_>
or you get fired
<midfavila>
everything
<midfavila>
you always have to look busy
<midfavila>
even if you're caught up on everything
<midfavila>
i've unironically had managers tell me that if i have time to lean i have time to clean
<il>
well... A baseline of human interaction does matter, but I never mind cashiers sitting
<midfavila>
also you can get fired for literally anything
<midfavila>
they can just make shit up
<il>
The closest grocery store to my flat employs some people who don't bother with basic manners, it's really offputting interacting with them
<kris_>
when my ankle was the size of an *american* football because i was standing for 8 hours per day and went and asked for a chair temporarily they told me to file a complaint with HR
<il>
so I was thankful when they got self-checkout
<kris_>
aka fuck off
<midfavila>
i can take their job
<midfavila>
pls take me
* midfavila
waves and jumps up and down
<il>
midfavila: cca. 600 eur per month netto (after taxes)
<il>
for 160 hours of work
<midfavila>
median rent for a private room?
<il>
private room, idk, but a studio apartment, 300-500 eur
<midfavila>
fucking done
<midfavila>
sign me up
<il>
how would you survive?
<midfavila>
easily lol
<il>
You'd have 300-100 eur per month for food and bills
<il>
if you were only surviving
<midfavila>
i was getting by on a paycheque of 1200CAD a month with rent at 1050 and grocery at the rest
<il>
I don't even know how people survive on this... Roommating/living with family and sharing expenses, probably
<midfavila>
i was looking at london england and it's cheaper to rent a small place there than almost anywhere in canada, it seems
<midfavila>
food is cheaper too
<il>
lmao...
<midfavila>
and there's more work that pays better, with lower requirements
<midfavila>
and better transit and services
<il>
midfavila: what about smaller towns in canada?
<midfavila>
no jobs
<midfavila>
all the small towns are bedroom communities
<il>
What does that mean?
<midfavila>
there's only houses there
<midfavila>
they're giant suburbs
<midfavila>
they only exist because living in the cities proper is too expensive for most people
<il>
Ah... Car-centric urban design...
<midfavila>
like
<midfavila>
iirc in toronto the median rent for a 1br apartment exceeds the median salary
<midfavila>
vancouver is crazy expensive too
<midfavila>
as is halifax
<il>
that seems mathematically impossible
<midfavila>
and yet it isn't!
<il>
or at least very inefficient, it implies
<midfavila>
welcome to canada eh
<il>
that most of that housing sits empty
<midfavila>
yes it's extremely inefficient
<midfavila>
and yes
<midfavila>
it does
<midfavila>
like a fifth of our economy is just housing speculation
<midfavila>
not building
<midfavila>
not renovating
<il>
I don't understand how people find it more profitable to not rent their property than to rent it
<midfavila>
not buying or selling
<midfavila>
speculating
<midfavila>
il: renting depreciates the value of the property
<il>
Yeah, something has gone wrong when that's happening.
<midfavila>
if the property increases in value while empty faster than while full the market dictates it should remain empty
<il>
midfavila: passage of time depreciates the value of property.
<midfavila>
yeah it's called liberalism
<midfavila>
il: not in canada!
<il>
The valuation of property is hypothetical
<il>
It's potential, not real
<midfavila>
we have all of about four or five major cities and everyone needs to live there
<midfavila>
yeah most of canada's economy is based on potentiality
<midfavila>
that's why it's shit
<il>
midfavila: so canada doesn't respect the laws of nature
<midfavila>
correct
<midfavila>
i'm not even joking
<il>
That usually doesn't work out well in the long term.
<midfavila>
our entire economy is locked up in mortgages and land
<midfavila>
and yes
<midfavila>
that's also true
<il>
I really hope that people stop treating housing as an asset soon... Globally.
<il>
It's probably inevitable in an inflationary environment.
<midfavila>
that's why we have scurvy and measles and tens of thousands of people requesting medical death out of desperation
<midfavila>
every year
<midfavila>
the housing as asset thing is really bad here
<midfavila>
the entire path to retirement is like
<il>
Everyone trying to outsmart the system at the same time leading to everyone being mutually fucked is kinda ironically just.
<midfavila>
uni->career->starter home->pay it off->marry->have kids->reach six figure salary->use first house as collateral for bigger house, rent out smaller house to pay off bigger house->send kids to school->kids move out->sell both houses, retire, cash out stock portfolio and public pension, live off savings after buying small cabin in some sunny place outright
<midfavila>
but uh
<midfavila>
between tuition and books and cost of living, a four-year bach degree requires around 80-120kCAD
<midfavila>
at a regular school
<il>
If I knew what I know now
<midfavila>
and there are no career jobs any more
<il>
and I was living in NA
<il>
I'd do my best to become a tradesman
<midfavila>
so you're going to graduate and end up working at starbucks
<midfavila>
LMAO
<midfavila>
yeah no
<midfavila>
the trades are fucked too
<il>
I'm serious
<il>
I doubt it
<midfavila>
yeah and you'd be making a terrible decision
<il>
Doubtful, can't be without a job when you're doing something tangible
<midfavila>
you can't get apprenticeships any more without a two-year program in most cases
<midfavila>
so you have to go spend money you don't have at a trade school
<midfavila>
then hope to god you can get an apprenticeship with no experience
<midfavila>
then accept basically minimum wage for 4 years at least
<midfavila>
and then maybe, maybe, maybe
<midfavila>
you can break the 20/hr barrier
<midfavila>
if you're lucky
<il>
Are you talking about canada only or entire nA
<midfavila>
canad
<midfavila>
canada
<midfavila>
idk about america but i know we're more fucked than they are
<midfavila>
same with mexico greenland et al
<il>
While you're closer than I am, I don't know if your intuition should be generalized internationally