01:27 <uwumeowmeownyaa> The program didn't start eventually, by the way. So I decided that I don't need this program anymore.

04:37 <brian|lfs> curious anyone try building elfutils 0.191 on GCC 14.2?

04:37 <brian|lfs> seems to fail for me

07:56 <ppetrov^> uwumeowmeownyaa, what program were you trying to start?

09:11 <uwumeowmeownyaa> ppetrov^: FluffyChat by krille-chan, the cutest instant messenger in the [matrix]. The reason is it has pink theme, so it would suit my desktop.

09:13 <SiFuh> ppetrov^: There is like next to zero difference between many of the 6.6.x kernel configurations.

09:14 <ppetrov^> thanks SiFuh

09:14 <SiFuh> Must be only updating code or not x86-64 stuff.

09:16 <SiFuh> ppetrov^: https://dpaste.com/B6PGHUH9A.txt diff between 35 and 50

09:17 <ppetrov^> mhm

09:18 <ppetrov^> uwumeowmeownyaa, so you made your own port for the fluffychat and it does not start?

09:23 <uwumeowmeownyaa> ppetrov^: No, I don't know how to make my own ports. Instead, I downloaded an archive, extracted it, and kept launching the extracted binary and installing libraries from ports until I had to install a library that was not present on ports.

09:25 <ppetrov^> to make a port, there's the tool `prtcreate`

09:25 <ppetrov^> https://crux.nu/Main/Handbook3-7#ntoc39

09:26 <ppetrov^> and prtcreate comes with nice build templates for the different build systems

09:26 <ppetrov^> say you want to make a port for foo

09:26 <ppetrov^> mkdir foo

09:26 <ppetrov^> cd foo

09:27 <ppetrov^> prtcreate autotools

09:27 <ppetrov^> if the build system is autotools

09:27 <ppetrov^> or prtcreate meson for meson, etc

09:27 <ppetrov^> for the fluffy thing, i don't know what you need, but you can make a port, install it and then use revdep to check what libraries you are missing

09:29 <ppetrov^> uwumeowmeownyaa, making your own ports is one of the most fun things in crux :P

09:30 <uwumeowmeownyaa> I will learn how to create ports to port "bspwm" and "sxhkd" then. I hate what FluffyChat build process might look like.

10:18 <ppetrov^> uwumeowmeownyaa, for first port start with someting easy, which does not have many dependencies and if it does, preferably they can be found in opt or contrib

14:01 <uwumeowmeownyaa> I have seen many packages taking pre-built TTF files from somewhere, without building them. For example, Liberation fonts require some python libraries, and the related ports only downloads TTF files. Is it a good practice?

14:04 <ppetrov^> TTFs won't work without python libs?

14:04 <ppetrov^> i am not experienced with fonts but being blissfully ignorant, i thought having TTF was quite enough

14:07 <uwumeowmeownyaa> On the one hand, I hate Python so much it's unreal, so I'd rather not install a Python library when I don't have to. On the other hand, by only installing TTF files one loses ability to reproduce the build process...

14:08 <ppetrov^> what fonts are we talking about?

14:08 <ppetrov^> liberation?

14:08 <uwumeowmeownyaa> Yes, I've only checked them so far.

14:08 <ppetrov^> to build TTF maybe you need some libs, to use TTF i guess you don't?

14:09 <uwumeowmeownyaa> This is true.

14:12 <ppetrov^> what other fonts do you need?

14:15 <uwumeowmeownyaa> I need plenty and most of them need Python libraries (to be built). For example, the Noto CJK font.

14:16 <ppetrov^> there's a noto port

14:16 <ppetrov^> does in include this cjk

14:17 <uwumeowmeownyaa> I'm afraid of using ports from contrib or user collections because they might download viruses on my crypto-system.

14:20 <uwumeowmeownyaa> Also, the Noto font port does not include the CJK font. But it's easy to write a port for it.

14:26 <ppetrov^> about contrib, ask the devs but i doubt they are dangerous

14:29 <uwumeowmeownyaa> There was a note on the handbook recommending to treat contrib packages the special way because anyone can share anything, including malicious code. At least, this is how I understood the written.

14:48 <ppetrov^> contrib is not exactly a "free for all" ports collection

14:48 <ppetrov^> you can ask farkuhar more about it

14:48 <uwumeowmeownyaa> Okay then :-)

14:49 <farkuhar> https://crux.nu/Wiki/ContribMembers only lists four contrib-uters at present. There used to be a lot more.

14:49 <uwumeowmeownyaa> Oh, this seems nice, I will sure install more contrib packages then.

14:51 <ppetrov^> thanks farkuhar

14:52 <farkuhar> I'd prefer to leave the cautionary note in the handbook as it is, in hopes that eventually we might recruit more CRUX users to help maintain that repo. A healthy return to the old days when contrib received commits from 10+ people.

14:52 <ppetrov^> farkuhar, what are the criteria for a user to join the contrib repo?

14:53 <farkuhar> ppetrov^, you have to submit an application on the crux-contrib mailing list, after having maintained a personal repo for several months. Then the contrib team votes on whether to grant commit privileges.

14:54 <ppetrov^> mhm

14:54 <ppetrov^> and what ports are generally accepted?

14:55 <farkuhar> I think your r4-modules repo should qualify.

14:57 <ppetrov^> i don't think so. This is a very biased personal selection of R packages that fit my needs, and it's huge already (510 ports). Also, there are a bunch of redundant deps that I really do not intend to mess up with

14:58 <ppetrov^> technically, my cran3crux can generate ports for everything that is in CRAN (i think 20,000 packages)

14:58 <ppetrov^> and everything in BioConductor. But i won't be able to test them

14:59 <ppetrov^> from ppetrov, maybe strawberry, celestia, etc might be of interest

14:59 <ppetrov^> *cran2crux, not 3

15:01 <farkuhar> Was it in r4-modules where you wanted to define PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR as a directory that might not yet exist at the time of downloading the sources?

15:01 <farkuhar> Or is that a general preference you like to apply for all your invocations of pkgmk?

15:04 <ppetrov^> general personal preference

15:04 <ppetrov^> not a big deal

15:04 <ppetrov^> i can always create said dubfolders myself and all will work

15:05 <ppetrov^> *subfolders

15:05 <ppetrov^> i can't wven type anymore...

15:05 <farkuhar> Just curious ... certain software ecosystems might make it riskier to pool all the tarballs in a common directory, and other ecosystems have no problem with the practice. Not sure where R lands on that continuum, though.

15:06 <ppetrov^> so far I have had 0 zproblems

15:06 <ppetrov^> sources are called RPachage_version.tar.gz

15:06 <ppetrov^> sth like this

15:07 <ppetrov^> but i was thinking that it would be neater if each port had its own subfolder for collecting source versions cumulatively

15:07 <ppetrov^> cumulatively <- i mean, keeping older versions just in case

15:09 <farkuhar> Well the default is to clutter the ports tree with all the downloaded sources. If you left it that way, you could set up a cronjob with something based on prtwash, to move all the downloaded sources somewhere else.

16:14 <ppetrov^> understood

23:52 <farkuhar> Re: contrib, it's nice to have a semi-official repo that is inactive by default, and users must make a conscious decision to enable it. In May 2005 there was a discussion about merging opt and contrib, but thankfully saner heads prevailed. https://lists.crux.nu/archives/list/crux-devel@lists.crux.nu/thread/2IGBND2RF36SGPDHR2RCNGRR3IO4WAUW/#D4G5VEVEEUEFKSMFL64ODOTYZW4DI3SL

23:57 <farkuhar> Keeping the contrib repo deactivated is a fully-supported deployment, but less supported is the idea of deactivating any of {core,opt,xorg}. Yet in FS#1924 one user wanted us to support QEMU on a headless machine where the xorg repo was deactivated. For this user, it made sense to have xorg-libpixman moved to opt.