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<set_> Believe it or not, GenTooMan, I am still trying to fly right w/ the BBBlue. Argh...
<set_> I am compiling a new bunch of their source. Hopefully, this is the match maker!
<set_> I see some interesting things happening in the RISC-V world and soon...
<set_> Anyway, I thought I would blab a bit.
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<GenTooMan> speak of the set_
<set_> GenTooMan!
<set_> Huh uh!
<set_> Ha.
<set_> Up, up, and OTay!
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<GenTooMan> live set_ or is that set_ live?
<set_> Um...either? What are you discussing here?
<set_> I just got back. I am glad you are here...
<set_> Does the Servo Header on the BBBlue have a 5v supply on the positive pins?
<set_> I can test it. Do not fret.
<set_> I just had a receiver plugged into the BBBlue Servo Header. It was powered and now notta. Poof, like that. No power.
<set_> It is almost like the BBBlue is picking which of the positive pins on the Servo Header to allow the 5v output.
<set_> It seems odd. Anyway...I am fed up to the brim w/ ArduPilot for now. The further I get, the more issues accumulate. There is no cure!
<set_> And...
<set_> GenTooMan: what is "live set_ && set_ live"?
<set_> Did you see a video of me complaining again?
* GenTooMan avoids videos of people whining. "Isn't their documentation for the connectors on the BBlue? Schematic might be helpful.
<set_> Oh!
<set_> Good idea!
* set_ says GenTooMan hates my pitty party!
<set_> "My toe hurts!"
<set_> Off to the schematic...
<ogra> of your toe ?
<set_> No.
<set_> Of the BBBlue.
* GenTooMan goes looking for a toe schematic.
<set_> Okay. There is a 6v regulator. and some other doo-dads and then some resistors.
<set_> 3.6 uH inductor?
<set_> Hmm. Off to research this idea.
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<set_> Okay. Yes. There is a 3.6 uH (Henry) inductor from the 6v reg. to the pwr/positive of the servo headers and then there is a 4.7k ohm resistor on each of the three pin headers.
* set_ tells GenTooMan to not look up cadaver toes for schematics and to help w/ the math portion of how to relay this info. into a possibility.
<set_> GenTooMan: I only have so much knowledge on the math portions of the electrical field ideas.
<set_> Wait!
<set_> DO not tell me
<set_> I am finding worksheets online.
<set_> Is there an inductor on the BBBlue at all?
<set_> I just looked over the board...Oh! The backside.
<set_> Wait...is the AOZ1284 all one piece?
<set_> Okay. No issue.
<set_> I am done for now. The BBBlue works. I know this idea is true.
<set_> No more from me. Squeaking for now until later!
<set_> That 6v reg. is no joke.
<set_> I got the datasheet open. Man, this is blowing my mind on how complicated this tiny piece of circuitry actually is now.
<set_> I will need more time!
<GenTooMan> I doubt an inductor is all that important. Perhaps you should look at the nets things attach too instead?
<set_> Okay. I was just trying to figure out how 7.4v going into the 6v reg. would end up after the 3.6uH inductor. Then, I could probably figure out how the 4.7k ohms resistors work their way into the mix.
<set_> But...
<set_> I guess I can attempt to see the output voltage on the servo header on positive/GND and then see my dumaflachee minimum voltage.
<set_> This is by far much simpler but I will know less. Therefore, either way is awesome as I yell, "Turn ON!"
<GenTooMan> so I assume the servo type your were refering to is an RC servo. Those draw approximately 30-200ma sometimes a lot more. It is unlikely they would be feeding power through 4.7k resistors for that.
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<set_> Yep. I saw the schematic and it shows a 4.7k resistor on the board right before the positive pin or maybe another pin (signal <- whatever that is).
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<set_> Hey...I am actually powering a receiver from this Servo Header (Positive and GND).
<set_> I am messing w/ the ArduPilot stuff still and trying to get things kickin'.
<set_> Oh! and...
<set_> Just to say this idea: People from LA stink. There.
<set_> I just spent this entire time cleaning out my nice, pristine gutters!
<set_> Supper is ready!
<set_> All fun aside, what is the...Oh! So, maybe the amount of draw from the receiver killed off some pins on the BBBlue?
<set_> This one came to me w/ four pins bent and some doctoring up of the circuitry. It looks like a person, a real human, soldered it w/ a special technique.
<set_> So, maybe-maybe-maybe.
<set_> I will get the datasheet on it real quickly.
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<set_> 100 mA at 5v
<set_> That is my 'draw' from the receiver. So, if I am taking in, if the draw is 100 mA, that amount at 5v, I should have only 400 mA more to use for the BBBlue?
<set_> Let me check.
<set_> Well...I did not find what I need but I found what I want!
<set_> Rev. C!
<set_> It has a am335x right. So, from that point forward, the older BBBlue, I would have to figure out what the PMIC can allow for draw/current?
<set_> So, the servo header is 6v. Okay.
<GenTooMan> it makes ense the servo power is 6V as many medium sized servos can handle that.
<set_> Oh. Well, my receiver can handle it too. Do you think you may know how to and how not to receive power from that Servo Header?
<set_> I thought it was one GPIO pin that needs to be high?
<set_> So, I run the, via a shell script, commands on boot via a .service file and everything is dandy. Nothing seems awkward. But! It is finicky.
<set_> On/Off/On and so on.
<set_> Anyway...I should keep testing before I flip out. Ha.
<GenTooMan> you can tell from the schematic also.
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<set_> B/c of the 6v reg?
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<set_> And...b/c of the 125 mA drawn from the receiver, my ESCs on the signal pins on the Servo header along w/ the other built-in components like the compass and "stuff" all may draw too much mA per BBBlue.
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<set_> Although, they are not generic, I will never be able to find the correct docs. on these specific motor controllers for mA usage.
<set_> Hmm. 20A * 4 is what the thing, the ESC, says on it. But...no datasheet. So, 80A * 7.4v = 592w? Does this sound feasible?
<set_> Hey...sorry for taking up all this space for these ideas you all already understand but! Does ~600watts of power sound like a testable entity for me?
<set_> and if so, how would I go about testing this ~600w?
<set_> Cough. I was in the generic ohms law. Sorry.
<set_> Okay...~600w. I feel as though I am missing somethin'. GenTooMan: yes or no, does ~600w of power come from 80A of ESCs and a 7.4v LiPo? I know you guys are more educated in this field. I am limpin' on a limb here...
<GenTooMan> I^2*R loss for the FETs
<set_> or is it (20A / 7.4v) * 4 = x?
<set_> Okay.
<vagrantc> having run off of 400W of solar panels really rescaled my understanding of "a lot of power"
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<vagrantc> anything above 100W seems like a lot to me :)
<set_> Okay. Thank you.
<set_> I am breathing again.
<GenTooMan> the 400W is relative to the current voltage peek curve of the panel
<vagrantc> that said, no domain specific knowledge about what you're doing :)
<set_> Oh. I am just making this BBBLue fly.
<vagrantc> "just"
<set_> I know.
<set_> It is a big deal.
<set_> But...I have been trying to accomplish this task for a 'bit.'
<vagrantc> a small helium baloon ought to make most SBCs fly!
<GenTooMan> set_, start off with a infinite source of power (power supply)
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<set_> I have some three phase motors...
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<set_> GenTooMan: Okay.
<set_> so total power. Okay.
<set_> ~600w or 10.81w
<GenTooMan> no see what power is needed to flow with the ESC you have.
<GenTooMan> to fly not "to flow" LOL
<set_> Oh. Okay. 7.4v!
<GenTooMan> that's VOLTAGE NOT POWER
<set_> Oops. 10.81w
<set_> Yell louder!
<set_> Ha.
<vagrantc> ~10w of what?
<set_> 10w of power/wattage
<vagrantc> at 7.4v ? so, just a little over 1 watt?
<vagrantc> er, 1 amp, sorry
<set_> Yes.
<set_> Oops. Yes.
<set_> No issue. I am full of mistakes. Momma always said ______.
<vagrantc> i'd guess that 20A * 4 that your ESC said is ... the maximum output?
<set_> Hmm.
<set_> I am not sure.
<vagrantc> does this control power by regulating the voltage supplied to the motors?
<set_> yes. more or less. I can put a two cell up to a four cell on it.
<vagrantc> are the motors on/off, or do they have variable speed?
<set_> i.e. I am speakin' of the ESCs still. They control the something or other to the motors. Variable.
<set_> Well, when I started them as I calibrated them, they would run partially if the gimbal on my control/transmitter was centered.
<set_> I can control the speed of the motors slightly.
<set_> It is a very dangerous bot so far.
<set_> I am scared of it but nevertheless, I want to make it to the sky w/ it.
<set_> vagrantc: I think the (20A / 7.4v) = 10.81w is the normal attempt at ohms law for DC.
<vagrantc> normally it's volts * amps = watts
<set_> My math got confused. Sorry: (20A / 7.4v) * 4 = 10.81. So, volts * amps = watts. Okay, 7.4v * 80A = ~600w?
<vagrantc> yeah, a little under 600W
<set_> Seems normal right b/c there are four ESCs at 20A each?
<set_> And vagrantc... About your earlier question about the maximum output of the ESCs. I think the max is over 20A.
<set_> For spikes.
<vagrantc> or maybe maximum continuous load? (e.g. spikes should generally be brief)
<set_> I guess, I currently have not been in a purchase agreement w/ a ESC mfg. that has had a datasheet.
<set_> I might have to up my 'game.'
<vagrantc> yeah, having good documentation might help :)
<set_> Right!
<set_> Well, lessoned learned. Now, I can move on in peace.
<set_> No more undocumented ESC purchases. Thank you.
<set_> I actually read an interesting read a while back about this fellow describing how to put a ESC together.
<set_> discrete here and there and then some switches.
<set_> GenTooMan told me not to reinvent the ESC but I may try to make one another day.
<set_> Who knows?
<set_> I just wonder something and I am hurt for not knowing. Do ESCs have actual programmable chips in them or do they not?
<set_> Or maybe they only have so many functions. Hmm. Oh well.
<vagrantc> set_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_speed_control seems to have some useful generic information
<set_> Okay. Thank you.
<vagrantc> i've never used motors, only experimented abusing the hardware to regulate the wattage of a heating element ... and spectacularly killed a pocketbeagle in the process
<set_> Yep. It seems they, these ESCs, have to be able to handle a signal. So, some of them, maybe most of them, have a microcontroller in them.
<set_> Ouch!
* vagrantc will use cheaper microcontrollers for future experimentation
<set_> ha.
<set_> It is hard to replace a nice board after it is broken in.
<set_> Well, right now, I have a BBBlue w/ a Servo Header intact, along w/ a "I-Do-Not-Want-To-Turn-On" receiver, and power b/c LiPo batteries hold and replenish their charge easily.
<set_> Thank you bbb.io!
<set_> I am talking about the LiPo attachment.
* set_ thinks of what exactly or in which field I would be in right now if I was not trying to fly w/ the BBBlue.
* set_ field actually means a field w/ grass and dirt.
<vagrantc> can your LiPo actually handle that kind of load?
<vagrantc> if you're really talking about running ~600W of equipment ... that would need a pretty powerful battery
<set_> Oh. See, this is why I think it is not the (20A * 4) / 7.4v = x. I think it has to be (20A / 7.4v) * 4 = x.
<set_> But...I cannot be sure. B/c getting ohms law states one thing but there are many circuits in b/t the A and v.
<set_> My math. SOrry.
<set_> The first of those equations should have gone like this: 20A * 7.4v = x.
<set_> Dang it. Bad math again. 80A * 7.4v. There. sheesh.
<vagrantc> well, something operating at 20A * 7.4v = 148w ... and if you have four somethings ... * 4 ...
<set_> But...that is incorrect, right? ~600 seems outlandish.
<set_> for a tiny flying BBBlue? ~600w would push a speaker to annoying levels. Like those cars that pass, i.e. Boom, Boom, Boom.
<vagrantc> i would guess 20A might be some other value, then
<set_> See.
<vagrantc> the voltage of your battery pack is definitely 7.4v?
<set_> Why are they saying 20 amperes * 4. yes. Well..
<vagrantc> do your motors have any specs as to what they draw?
<vagrantc> or what resistance they are...
<set_> Battery is S2, two cell, 7.4v but discharges at a higher voltage when fully charged.
<set_> In kelvins?
<set_> Let me check.
<vagrantc> nominal 7.4v ?
<set_> yes.
<vagrantc> so two 3.7v LiPo cells, what amp-hours or watt-hours are they rated for?
<set_> Oh. 30c at 2200mA.
<vagrantc> i don't think you mean temperature relative to absolute zero or color temperature :)
<set_> Let me go and look up something.
<set_> right.
<set_> I mean kv. I think I was fooled by the kv.
<vagrantc> "30c" is how much times the standard discharge rate you can spike to, if i recall correctly...
<set_> Hmm. W/ these questions, I have a lot of work to do...I better read up more.
<set_> Hmm. That makes me think I could be botching things already.
<vagrantc> 2200mAH? e.g. hours
<vagrantc> a.k.a. 2.2 Amp Hours
<set_> Yes.
<vagrantc> or, consistantly draw 2.2 amps for one hour, of 4.4 amps for 0.5 hours, etc.
<set_> So, Okay. Right.
<set_> Yes.
<set_> RPM = 2204kv * 7.4v
<set_> That is per motor for each motor.
<vagrantc> i found this a helpful introduction https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/electric-power
<set_> So, RPM = 16309.6
<set_> For my motors.
<set_> This is a start of helpful. Maybe?
<vagrantc> what's the kv ... kilovolts?
<set_> No.
<vagrantc> not familiar with that unit
<set_> The Kv rating of a brushless motor is the ratio of the motor’s unloaded rpm to the peak voltage on the wires connected to the coils <<< This is what rotordronepro.com says...
<set_> vargrantc: I will read the sparkfun site later. I see there is a nice set of joules and seconds to behold!
<set_> I scroll their site from time to time.
<set_> They have simplistic approaches to complicated terminology. Things seem simple but really get complicated quickly.
<set_> For me, at least.
<vagrantc> yeah, it's almost like the world is constructed out of complicated things!
<set_> Me neither. But these three phase motors, Ha, keep putting this kv marking on them.
* vagrantc sticks to plain ol DC
<set_> Hey...
<set_> I got a DC motor. Generic, of course, but has kick. Do you know how to find the real DC rating of the motor if it has not documentation?
<set_> I always here of these motor testers...
<set_> For testing specific qualities of motors, i.e. specific motors.
<set_> For instance, why allow a faulty motor to work until it dies if one can fix it?
<set_> For instance, these motor repair shops for cars...if a keen eye was on it, that motor could have been fixed and known to be faulty. Motors are expensive.
<set_> Insurance!
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