00:04 <acheam_> nice

00:04 <acheam_> chimera is really cool

00:05 <acheam_> and is pretty close to what my final kiss setup was like

00:05 <acheam_> (apart from the really cool bubblewrap build system and apk packages ofc)

00:20 <noocsharp> are you still on fedora?

00:20 <acheam_> yes

00:20 <acheam_> its treating me nicely as a daily driver

00:21 <acheam_> over the summer I might play around with things again though

00:21 <acheam_> but have no time at the moment

01:01 <illiliti> does chimera enforce logind, dbus, udev, pam, ...?

01:01 <illiliti> the things that kiss explicitly excludes

05:36 <testuser[m]> Hi

06:37 <travankor> does chimera enforce logind, dbus, udev, pam, ...? -> yes

06:38 <travankor> and webkitgtk is the recommended browser engine

06:41 <travankor> and gnome is the recommended de (lol)

08:07 <testuser[m]> https://termbin.com/flr8

08:07 <testuser[m]> so bad

08:29 <testuser[m]> https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/master/third_party/rust/audio_thread_priority/Cargo.toml#L37 found it

17:12 <dilyn> konimex: your icon on that artix link looks familiar

17:12 <dilyn> were you old enough in 2008 to be on the internet

17:18 <testuser[m]> 2008?

17:18 <dilyn> yeah you know

17:18 <dilyn> the dark ages

17:18 <dilyn> I knew a fellow on a forum way back when who always used a very similarly styled art

20:10 <greg904> illiliti_: I'm running your fork of wlroots that makes udev optional and I was wondering what NETLINK_BITMASK is? On my machine, the default value of 4 doesn't seem to work. I could not find documentation, but looking at some kernel code, I tried 1 and that works, but I don't know what I'm doing. Do you have any pointers?

20:29 <illiliti_> NETLINK_BITMASK specifies which bitmask libudev-zero will use to receive uevents

20:30 <illiliti_> by default, libudev-zero listens for uevents with 4 bitmask. you need to configure your device manager to send uevents to that bitmask for hotplugging

20:30 <illiliti_> 1 used by kernel, 2 used by udev for example

20:32 <illiliti_> netlink is quite underdocumented, especially uevents

20:33 <greg904> ok that makes sense, thanks

20:40 <illiliti_> oh i think i misread your text a bit. what i said basically means same thing for udev-less libinput, so just replace libudev-zero with libinput in my messages

20:41 <illiliti_> you use this https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wlroots/wlroots/-/merge_requests/3490, right?

20:42 <greg904> yes

20:50 <illiliti_> what enum-backend are you using for libinput? netlink or demi?

20:50 <greg904> netlink

21:04 <illiliti_> should be okay. if you use device manager, just make sure it is capable of rebroadcasting uevents to NETLINK_BITMASK in order to make input hotplugging(if you need one) work

21:04 <illiliti_> for example, mdevd can do this natively via -O option

21:05 <illiliti_> busybox mdev needs helper. check contrib/mdev.conf of libudev-zero project for more info

21:05 <illiliti_> although, as you already discovered, it is possible to make input hotplugging work without device manager. just set NETLINK_BITMASK to 1

21:06 <illiliti_> you will have to manually set proper permissions for /dev/input/* though

21:10 <greg904> I think wlroots should be able to use seatd to open /dev/input/*

21:15 <greg904> but yeah you're right I will have to set permissions if I don't use a device manager

21:16 <illiliti_> i'm pretty sure you have these questions: why there's NETLINK_BITMASK? why libinput can't simply listen for kernel uevents with 1 bitmask?

21:17 <illiliti_> well, because nasty race condition may occur when device manager hasn't had enough time to set permissions for /dev/input/* which can lead to breakage

21:17 <illiliti_> in order to resolve this race bug we have to rebroadcast uevents: kernels uevents -> device manager -> application

21:22 <greg904> yeah I didn't know that you could send netlink from userspace to userspace, I just thought libudev used a UNIX socket or something like that, but then now I wonder why they didn't make libudev more generic like libdemi

21:23 <greg904> if it just reads uevent netlink that is the same from all device managers

21:28 <greg904> so that it could work with every device manager

21:34 <illiliti_> because they tend to over-engineer things and enforce architecture

21:34 <illiliti_> systemd's libudev uses eBFP under the hood for example

21:34 <illiliti_> systemd devs also plan to deprecate libudev in favor of libsystemd

21:35 <illiliti_> which enforces architecture even more