cr1901 changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, CD/floppy disk theory of operation, and the 68k CPU are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
<NiGHTS>
William D. Jones on Twitter: "Oh, FPGA is trending, wonder wh- ohhhh noooooo WHYYYYY?! T_T (Yes, it's emulation. The topic is often brought up in bad faith to say FPGAs are a inherently superior representation of the FSM making up an old computer.)" / Twitter
<fseidel>
clearly FPGAs aren't emulation, the latter requires a Palladium or other such box ;-)
<fseidel>
actually, this raises an interesting question: has anyone used a Veloce/Palladium/etc. to simulate a game console? Seems unlikely given the cost of such units + amount of time required to bring up a design on one
<fseidel>
best chance would be an AE goofing around after hours...
<tpw_rules>
game console manufacturers
<tpw_rules>
?
<fseidel>
oh... I can't believe I didn't think of that :-/
<tpw_rules>
although idk how much the more recent generations are custom silicon
<fseidel>
for modern stuff, the individual chips would almost certainly go through emulation as part of DV, but I'm not sure about whole system emulation
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<tunixman>
hahahah fpgas are slash are not emulation
<tunixman>
on one side we have programmers who think hardware is real
<tunixman>
on the other side we have hardware people who think programming is fake. they're both right it turns out haha
<alexisvl>
hardware is just a kinda crappy emulation of the ideal circuit laws anyway~~
<qu1j0t3>
haha
<qu1j0t3>
the equations are willing, but the substrate is weak
<tunixman>
hahah yeah
<tunixman>
exactly.
<tunixman>
parasitic emulation
<cr1901>
"All models are wrong, but some models are useful"
<tunixman>
others are design patterns
* tunixman
ducks
<qu1j0t3>
cr1901: :)
* alexisvl
quacks
* qu1j0t3
cracks
<Lord_Nightmare>
fpgas are emulation, just in verilog/vhdl and synthesized to a fusemap rather than being done in software on a cpu
<Lord_Nightmare>
and like cpu-based emulation, they can have bugs too
<alexisvl>
aw. i thought we were in consensus that there's no real answer and it's an arbitrary distinction
<qu1j0t3>
yeah i don't see any meaningful question to address here
<qu1j0t3>
here's some stuff, use it to do other stuff
* qu1j0t3
starts the clock for work :|
<alexisvl>
it's one of those questions where every answer is valid from some perspective and nobody actually talks about the fact that they're all approaching it from their own particular one
* qu1j0t3
nods
<alexisvl>
best answered in shitpost form
<alexisvl>
while procrastinating starting real work for the day
* alexisvl
looks around
<alexisvl>
just me?
<qu1j0t3>
i cannot procrastinate any further
<qu1j0t3>
i'm in this terrible zone where:
<andlabs>
actually that makes me wonder
<qu1j0t3>
i wait until now (nearly 11am). i finish around 6 or 7pm. at exactly the point where i have no energy or interest in my own projects.
<qu1j0t3>
this has been going on for weeks. it's fatal to my progress.
<alexisvl>
:/
<andlabs>
what does virtual6502 lose by just storing the transistors, and nothing bout their manufacture process or tolerances?
<andlabs>
for those chips that really are just nothing but transistors
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: I have a JLCPCB i am testing the first build of.
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: XYZ vector generaiton, i think we probably discussed above.
<alexisvl>
:)
<qu1j0t3>
but. i've manage to get stalled. had to reorg lab in the meantime but i've got no excuses left :)
<alexisvl>
i went through a few side projects to the side project looking for something i actually found fun to work on. now i'm falling way too deep into an analog synth rabbit hole >_>
<qu1j0t3>
ah!
* alexisvl
has a pcb out for that rn
<qu1j0t3>
well, i did check out an HP 1746A scope that has been sitting here for years. I thought it was dead, but no, it's perfectly okay. just had to unstick the Time/Div knob.
<qu1j0t3>
almost new
<qu1j0t3>
will be selling. i figured i'd use the vector gen for some running pics. since the kids are into scope music and such
<andlabs>
until then I'm just going to have a different problem
<andlabs>
that these FPGA systems are just as expensive as the originals on the used market, meaning they aren't making accessibility better
<andlabs>
or they're made by awful human garbage like the zx spectrum vega / amiga 500 mini / sues female youtubers for jokes about old video game characters guy
<qu1j0t3>
andlabs: i'm pretty sure the simulator cares nothing about process or tolerances? but i could be wrong.
<andlabs>
(yeah don't... don't buy the amiga 500 mini. I've only seen one retro channel actually review it, and that person can choose to be a traitor if they want, but other than that good.)
<NiGHTS>
Nicolas Noble.web1.ponzi.pyramid on Twitter: "@cr1901 "Emulate (verb): match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation."" / Twitter
<andlabs>
"surpass"
<qu1j0t3>
hm...
<andlabs>
meme of guy tossing lit gasoline can into dumpster fire here
* alexisvl
popcorns
* qu1j0t3
tries to start work again
<andlabs>
yeah
<andlabs>
still wondering who it was that wanted the xgworks st
<qu1j0t3>
in this channel? someone can grep logs?
<andlabs>
oh it was nikitalita
<cr1901>
the irc log web interface has a search feature
<cr1901>
>meme of guy tossing lit gasoline can into dumpster fire here <-- I did say I have a present for chat :D
<andlabs>
well I bought a copy of it so I can rip it I guess
<qu1j0t3>
I'm going to say the net effect of doing that is probably not very significant
<andlabs>
not sure when that's gonna happen or if it'll go on archive.org or not given how new it is
<qu1j0t3>
unlesss it was a very small dumpster fire
<andlabs>
I am also considering trying to add the Korg 707 to MAME once my DX100 changes go in, maybe
<andlabs>
just because the user interface is interesting and unique for FM synthesis
<andlabs>
I'd try to get a real one and try it for myself but $$$
<tunixman>
emulate the prisoners' trolley problem on the fpga.
<qu1j0t3>
no u
* alexisvl
goes off to emulate a nice cup of coffee on an fpga
<qu1j0t3>
:)
<qu1j0t3>
good for boiling the water
<cr1901>
tunixman: You have a Twitter acct? I want to credit you for that IRC msg
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: I found a bunch of Tek 7000 material about the character generator (Barrie Gilbert) and his original paper on it. Really close to what I want to do.
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: my general purpose vector gen is working about as well as I want -- it's faster than a 1345A and at least as precise (tho i use 12 bit, they use 11 bit)
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: but characters are always gonna be slow, so i want to do a dedicated system for that like tek did
<qu1j0t3>
cr1901: tunixman's doctor and therapist have advised him not to use twitter.
<qu1j0t3>
cr1901: (and lawyer)
<cr1901>
ahhh
<qu1j0t3>
cr1901: (and well meaning friends)
<qu1j0t3>
even irc is frowned upon but here we are
<tunixman>
cr1901: sadly I'm off twitter. it hits my addiction center exactly the right way
<tunixman>
but if you put theunixman or tunixman in people will know.
<tunixman>
also it would potentially make you a target of 4chan haha
<tunixman>
but honestly I think all the dudes who'd remember me from that time have turned into the wage cucks they were afraid of becoming.
<alexisvl>
qu1j0t3: i really like the design of that character generator
<alexisvl>
it's really simple and straightforward.
<andlabs>
hey Foone james webb photos at 5, presented by president biden
<andlabs>
5 EST
<andlabs>
*EDT
<andlabs>
oh wait that was yesterday
<andlabs>
dumb chat history heh
<Foone>
yeah I saw! they didn't rename it yet, eh?
<tunixman>
they "paused" the project, but then went ahead with that dude's name anyway because great men shouldn't be penalized for being absolute cunts.
<andlabs>
don't name things after people I guess
<andlabs>
I like the response "well he didn't actually lead the charge so it shouldn't count against him"
<Foone>
yeah. I'm sure that was a lot of consolation for the people who had their lives ruined :)
<alexisvl>
definitely team "don't name things after people" here. sells short the _majority_ of the effort being by countless unnamed masses of people for almost every single thing humans have ever built
<alexisvl>
stop creating heroes
* qu1j0t3
is also disappointed at shenanigans that led to the name
* qu1j0t3
sighs
<andlabs>
if what he did was "not unusual for the time" then that actually makes the pracitce of naming anything after anyone worse
<andlabs>
because you can point at any period of time and argue it was worse
<andlabs>
even now
<tunixman>
let's just name them after war criminals so that we're not trying to hide what we're doing.
<tunixman>
The Joe Mccarthy space shuttle arm
<tunixman>
The kissinger sun explorer
<tunixman>
The Bushes
<alexisvl>
the line of thinking that it's excusable to be terrible because terribleness was common is inherently biased anyway. yeah, it's common among terrible people. you're implicitly discrediting all the people who were _recipients_ of it who'd have thought much much differently
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<alexisvl>
("you're" in the hypothetical here. not _you_.)
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<andlabs>
this is something I'm struggling with now actual
<andlabs>
we know better now
<tunixman>
oh yeah, when Linus had his epiphany that he was a bit of a dick basically every linux-adjacent person was super excited to give him his second chance and not talk about the past.
<andlabs>
why aren't we fighting to make sure there's never naother victim
<alexisvl>
"oh we have to just accept that our heroes were racists, everyone was back then" means "I only listen to white people's opinions" etc
<alexisvl>
it shows who you include in "everyone"
<Foone>
yeah. and it implicitly ignores the voices of the people from that time who were loudly NOT
<qu1j0t3>
^
<andlabs>
oh yeah also the argument that "this one wikipedia quote was fraudulent so the entire accusation is false"
<alexisvl>
anyway, i should _stop_ trying to find contentious topics to be loud about on IRC and get back to work, though it looks like this channel usually has good opinions :)
<andlabs>
but that just goes back to how we cannot make a single mistake in our efforts
<andlabs>
honestly the slippery slope of these arguments worry me
<andlabs>
because how do you properly fix society and atone?
<andlabs>
do you just let the past be? or do you systmeaticallye radicate everything from the past that was made on the blood of others?
<andlabs>
can you even clean-room modern technology if you try?
<andlabs>
what do we do about it is my question
<andlabs>
not naming telescopes after people complicit in the genocide of homosexuals is a start but that person still did stuff
<qu1j0t3>
andlabs: i don't think there is any slippery slope here. the JWST did not need to be named that. it's like a zero effort decision to just not do that.
<qu1j0t3>
andlabs: doesn't change any "technology"
<andlabs>
a genocide for the express purpose of entrenching capitalism, I should add
<qu1j0t3>
(they generally are)
<alexisvl>
(^)
<qu1j0t3>
andlabs: there were shenanigans around hte naming, don't know if you have read about them
<andlabs>
true
<andlabs>
in 2002? no
<andlabs>
I only saw the allegations from 2015 and 2021
<qu1j0t3>
andlabs: something like it came down to one guy who unilaterally decided it was going forward as JWST in the face of objections
<andlabs>
and the refusal of NASA to publish their inevistgation which seems like it'll be intentionally limited to the early 1950s
<andlabs>
oh
<andlabs>
probably james o'keefe, the person who had james webb's job at the time
<andlabs>
er
<andlabs>
sean o'keefe
<andlabs>
james is the nazi
<qu1j0t3>
possibly. there's a really good writeup by a woman whose name , ironically, i don't immediately remember.
<qu1j0t3>
from 2021 or 2022
<andlabs>
or did I swap them again?
<qu1j0t3>
anyway enough to make me sad.
<qu1j0t3>
i'll make a coffee and try to regroup for work.
<andlabs>
anyway NASA needs to be rescued
<alexisvl>
i had too much coffee in an attempt to get my brain engaged for work and now i'm overcaffeinated and can't focus.
<andlabs>
(when "at least the bushes were interested in manned spaceflight" is an argument...)
<qu1j0t3>
just had a good one hour call with our UX designer who was very nice about my input so I feel a bit better than i did while i was failiing on an authentication integration (why are they always so goddamn annoying)
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: Hahahahah well that's a risk in my case too. I never have more than two bialetti brews a day
<andlabs>
ah cool a UX designer actually listening to people
<andlabs>
that's refreshing
<qu1j0t3>
i'm not actually the client, but i'm a proxy for the client who he can actually be more blunt with lol
<andlabs>
instead of insisting they know best and that their bad designs are actually easier and better actually believe us
<qu1j0t3>
which was a useful form of dsicussion today
<andlabs>
you know I used to think the people constantly whining about youtube moving the UI elements around by mere pixels were hysterical
<qu1j0t3>
alexisvl: pm?
<andlabs>
sure am eating crow about that, because the entire industry has gone to shit
<andlabs>
sorry I'm an extremely angry person and should just avoid politics stuff entirely
<alexisvl>
qu1j0t3: are you asking me if it's after noon here or if you can send me a private message? ;)
<qu1j0t3>
the latter lol
<alexisvl>
yes
<qu1j0t3>
i guess ppl don't do that any more?
<alexisvl>
i appreciate it
<andlabs>
and I can't stop
<alexisvl>
but in the context of "I've had too much coffee", "is it after noon" made too much sense :)
<qu1j0t3>
Yeah! i totally understand.
<qu1j0t3>
keep the coffees quantized into am and pm for safety
<tunixman>
everyone (*)
<tunixman>
genocide is the right term. it's funny how often I explain that to Zionists...
<cr1901>
>i guess ppl don't do that any more? <-- I probably should but I don't unless I know apriori to ask
<tunixman>
I still do it if I'm not already actively in a dm.
<tunixman>
like, qu1j0t3 and I have probably had the query window open for 10+ years but for someone I don't know that well I'd definitely say hey, sup
<qu1j0t3>
lol, yeah. people i don't have an established session with.
<alexisvl>
I definitely appreciate it. Unsolicited PMs most frequently seem to contain either requests for personalized help I don't have the energy to provide or harassment, so I often respond to them with rapid use of /ignore
<alexisvl>
asking first at least takes that "oh god what is this one about" sinking feeling away