01:02 <smarmy> Heya! - I thought Sandstorm went defunct ??

01:11 <smarmy> I see activity on the Google Group. Best news I've heard all week!

01:14 <isd> smarmy: Sandstorm the business did indeed go out of business at the beginning of 2017 (mostly, though kentonv kept it going as far as running Oasis for a while, which has spun down now too), but starting at the beginning of 2020 some of us finally decided to roll up our sleaves. See also: https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/pull/3519

01:14 <isd> Erp, wrong link

01:14 <isd> https://sandstorm.io/news/2020-02-03-reviving-sandstorm

01:14 <isd> There we go

01:16 <smarmy> ah thanks.

01:16 <smarmy> I just rediscovered it through fairapps.net

01:16 <isd> It didn't stay quite as active as that post made it sound; Lyre wandered off, abliss got a job after a bit and didn't have much time. But there's been slow but steady work going on for the past year or so.

01:17 <isd> Welcome back.

01:17 <smarmy> cool - all volunteers. Well, I'd like to see it stick around and be useful. I'm trying to find a reliable FOSS office/collaboration suite for a community project of my own. Fair Apps in Germany has promise but I'm running into a few cracks - https://fairapps.net

01:18 <isd> Year and a half, really -- time flies

01:18 <smarmy> I'm willing to pay for reliable hosting and privacy/security

01:19 <isd> I don't know of anyone offering Sandstorm hosting currently, unfortunately. I often wish I had somewhere I could point people to for that.

01:24 <smarmy> That's what I'm saying. I just set up a sandstorm using a free account from this group in Germany - https://fairapps.net/

01:25 <smarmy> They offer paid hosting plans which includes Sandstorm among other tools. I'm still kicking the tires. Feeling hopeful...but also finding some things that are not 100% reliable

01:27 <isd> Aha, good to know about.

01:29 <isd> The thing you will likely notice quickly, many apps are still very out of date -- there's unfortunately a very long tail of stuff with no maintainer.

01:29 <isd> Generally interested in feedback.

01:29 <smarmy> I did notice that. Except for Monica and the Kanban board one

01:31 <smarmy> Well anyways, just popping in on the web client to say thanks for the effort! (applause)

01:31 <isd> Sorted by recently updated: https://apps.sandstorm.io/genre/New%2520%2526%2520Updated

01:31 <isd> You're welcome!

01:32 <smarmy> Here's a question: let's say I've got some personal data on my Sandstorm instance hosted by the fairapps.net service. Even though the apps are a few years old, is my data technically secure because of Sandstorm's design?

01:34 <isd> Depends somewhat on your threat model. But certainly if you're not sharing the grains with anyone it's not really a problem. And if you are the damage that's possible is comparatively tame -- the worst that's plausable as a consequence of out of date apps is users getting elevated privileges to a grain they already have access to.

01:35 <smarmy> interesting, good to know, thank you

01:36 <isd> So, e.g. it's still possible for an app to have a vulnerability that lets a user who's only supposed to have read access get edit access or something. But that's about as bad as it gets. And they still need to have access to the grain at all.

01:36 <smarmy> cool - that could work!

01:50 <isd> I assume this is the relevant offering: https://www.fairkom.eu/en/fairapps-0

01:51 <isd> ...no actual mention of Sandstorm, besides the fairly subtle use of the logo...

01:53 <isd> Ah, no it is in there "fairapps+ is the open source platform sandstorm, hosted by fairkom"

01:55 <kentonv> well that's... slightly weird that they're offering paid sandstorm hosting but have never communicated with us

01:57 <smarmy> Hmm...I guess they're busy? Probably no intended harm, but hopefully a meaningful collaboration can emerge

01:57 <kentonv> oh huh, it's just their server running on a sandcats domain, with SAML login

01:58 <isd> Hey, simple works.

01:59 <kentonv> I guess they don't enforce any disk quota, then...

02:01 <smarmy> Hard to say. I'm currently fooling around with their free account that says 200MB but that appears to be 200MB on the NextCloud instance. Not sure about the Sandstorm instance.

02:01 <isd> Is there a list of random features that got implemented with no UI somewhere? I know of a few of these only from you having mentioned them.

02:01 <isd> (iirc there is disk quota support, but no ui for it)

02:02 <kentonv> IIRC quota enforcement exists only in conjunction with LDAP

02:02 <kentonv> (or in Blackrock, but they aren't using that obivously)

02:12 <isd> It does look like they have LDAP login set up.

02:12 <isd> I can sign in with GitHub, but not create grains obviously

03:26 <kentonv> isd, it looks like only GitHub and SAML login to me

03:29 <isd> I must have confused the SAML for LDAP

17:21 <JacobWeisz[m]> Hi from Matrix bridging!

17:24 <ocdtrekkie> Okay, I think I'm now using my registered IRC nick via Matrix.

17:24 <ocdtrekkie> Woo! Hi everyone.

17:27 <ocdtrekkie> I think isd is the only one who can replumb #sandstorm:matrix.org but, if you go to join room, and add libera.chat, you can find and join #sandstorm through it.

17:48 <isd> Yeah, I'll have to dig into that soonish. I have no idea how moving room aliases works, or if you even can.

17:59 <ocdtrekkie> Pretty sure it's possible, but I think there's been some bugs reported with it, as it's obviously a hot topic right now.

18:00 <isd> Once we've done that, we should add a matrix link to /community

18:10 <isd> What are the adresses for the libera.chat bridge? Can't find a reference anywhere, though if it follows the usual pattern I would guess @libera-irc:matrix.org, with #_sandstorm_#libera:matrix.org or the like.

18:13 <isd> Ah, @appservice:libera.chat

18:17 <isd> Ok, I'm in.

18:18 <ocdtrekkie> I did the browsing via the app, where it lets you select rooms to join and just added libera.chat as a server to look in. It mostly did the rest for me, which was really nice.

18:19 <isd> Looks like the default room alias is already #sandstorm:libera.chat, so maybe we can just leave that, rather than try to redirect the :matrix.org one, since we never advertised that in the first place.

18:20 <isd> The utility of the latter was mainly that #sandstorm_#freenode:matrix.org was a bit much.

18:20 <isd> And I could never remember if it was that or #freenode_#sandstorm:matrix.org -- I'm not sure off-hand

18:28 <ocdtrekkie> That seems way nicer, yeah, I think we can leave it then.