ChanServ changed the topic of #rust-embedded to: Welcome to the Rust Embedded IRC channel! Bridged to and logged at, code of conduct at
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<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> korken89's Ethernet lib suggestion got me thinking... What do y'all generally use Ethernet for on MCUs? Can you plug it into a router or ESP chip, then send and Rx TCP messages?
<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> Might be fun to implement a "hardware" port scanner for fun
<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> And learning
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Quartiq uses ethernet for telemetry and run-time settings configurations via MQTT. It's also used for livestreaming high frequency sampling data
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Livestreaming lets us build an oscilloscope on the web browser, but the data comes from the ethernet interface to the MCU, since it's got a high bandwidth
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Also use it for low-frequency telemetry from the device
<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> Nice!
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> It integrates nicely with e.g. telegraf and other dashboards so you can see long-term (e.g. ~30 days) measurements of device info, like temperature
<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> That's cool
<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> The PC/MCU interactions I've done so far have all been USB/serial
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<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Anything more than a serial connection tends to become a lot more complex because of the need for state management, protocols, and timing constraints. Thankfully, there's solutions like Smoltcp to handle the complexity
<re_irc> <adamgreig> at work we have a lot of ethernet embedded devices for data acquisition, control systems, stuff like that, for hobby projects i also like it for always-on background stuff that wants to send data while my computer's off, like my weird mains frequency logger and stuff
<re_irc> <adamgreig> and yea, you plug it in to the wired network as usual and send/receive data
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> If you have PoE capable device, the ethernet cable doubles as your power supply
<re_irc> <adamgreig> yea, super handy
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Which is nice to eliminate all the cabling
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Although PoE is pretty complex circuit-wise
<re_irc> <adamgreig> and you can do time sync over ethernet too if your mcu supports some sort of timestamping (like all stm32s)
<re_irc> <adamgreig> eh, it's not so bad? you need poe compatible magnetics/magjack, a poe client chip which is just a soic8, and maybe some passives?
<re_irc> <adamgreig> i guess it depends on how you do the isolation
<re_irc> <adamgreig> we use an off the shelf dcdc brick with 3kV isolation which suffices
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Yeah, but gotta make sure you connect it all up right, and not be misled by component symbols in your hardware libs ;)
<re_irc> <adamgreig> hah, sure, there's that
<re_irc> <Catherine> and a buck, right?
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Fried a few PHYs because of improperly spec'd protection diodes
<re_irc> <adamgreig> if the PoE-powered device is itself isolated and has no electrical connections, you can just use the -48V DC from the PoE, but in most cases you'll need an isolated DCDC of some description
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> But yeah, PoE supporting switches are generally also more expensive
<re_irc> <Catherine> i remember looking at isolated poe converter topologies and finding a lot of flybacks, which seemed like a pain
<re_irc> <adamgreig> yea, it's really common to have an isolated flyback topology, but i just use a traco power isolated dc/dc converter which is just power in one side and power out the other
<re_irc> <adamgreig> is an old work project, having poe saves sooooo much wiring and faff and power supplies, for the sake of one or two slightly more expensive switches
<re_irc> <Catherine> where do you even get a flyback transformer besides "winding one"
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Stabilizer's got a PoE reference design if you're curious:
<re_irc> Pretty sure it's taken from the STM32H7 ref designs
<re_irc> <Catherine> they aren't exactly sold at digikey
<re_irc> <adamgreig> that was from before I implemented the PTP sync so still had coax, but these days the sync can go over the ethernet too
<re_irc> <adamgreig> there are still some at digikey I think! I had a weird one a while back for my diy 400v smps
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> I think they just buy a pre-made converter that takes in the PoE and outputs 12V
<re_irc> <Catherine> lol sinara
<re_irc> <Catherine> didn't expect to encounter that again
<re_irc> <adamgreig> not really suitable for PoE though, heh
<re_irc> <Catherine> yes, you can get _some_ transformers from the usual retailers
<re_irc> <Catherine> even some flybacks, i think! but usually not the kind you could use for PoE
<re_irc> <Catherine> that wasn't there when i looked! from 2019, it seems
<re_irc> <adamgreig> you can get pretty decent amounts of power out of PoE+ and PoE++ now too, like 70W
<re_irc> <K900> Wow they actually have a lot
<re_irc> <K900> Goes up to 120W, wow
<re_irc> <K900> (though that's not a flyback)
<re_irc> <adamgreig> £7 from digikey for like that will do 48V PoE in, isolated 5V out, saves such a ton of circuitry and smps design
<re_irc> <adamgreig> obviously higher power and voltages and such available
<re_irc> <K900> Now I'm trying to think about something I can use PoE for
<re_irc> <ryan-summers> Anywhere you've got ethernet, just slap one of those on instead and you no longer need a power source ;)
<re_irc> <K900> Yeah the problem is I have exactly 1 (one) Ethernet cable
<re_irc> <K900> And it runs from my switch to my PC
<re_irc> <K900> And I don't think I can power my PC off PoE (though that sounds like a fun cursed project)
<re_irc> <adamgreig> you can get some nice desktop PoE switches, like netgear gs308p or 305p
<re_irc> <K900> The switch actually does PoE already, it was supposed to connect to the building's CCTV system
<re_irc> <adamgreig> but yea, if you aren't already using ethernet for data on your embedded device, doing poe just for power probably doesn't make much sense
<re_irc> <K900> Then they scrapped the CCTV system
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<re_irc> <James Munns> Olimex used to have a 10eur poe extractpr
<re_irc> <James Munns> * power extractor
<re_irc> <James Munns> But some cisco switches would get angery about it, so I guess I wouldn’t recommend it
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<re_irc> <korken89> firefrommoonlight: In our case we want to have low latency with reliable communication for a huge IOT system, and as icing on the cake time synchronize all nodes via PTP
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<re_irc> <firefrommoonlight> Sweet
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