<nakilon>
not just compose replacement but something higher; maybe I'm reinventing something though, but currently I have a huge README-like config copypasta I put together for a case "if I need to recreate/fix the server" that is a hugely easier because of being in docker-compose that hwat it was before but I feel like it can be even better
<nakilon>
some docker services orchestration with ability to write their management logic as a Ruby script
<ox1eef>
Python looks to be leading in that area
<nakilon>
it's leading in wasting people resources
<nakilon>
/s
<ox1eef>
what do you mean
<ox1eef>
python is lucky in that way, far more diverse application of use in the mainstream.
<ox1eef>
at one time it seemed it could have been ruby, i remember vagrant being ruby once.
<nakilon>
the mainstream is not code or even use pc but sit and drink in night club
<nakilon>
and to not build anything
<nakilon>
rather destroy, consume and create problems, not solve
<ox1eef>
haha true
<nakilon>
idk what was that luck that vagrant was in ruby, not pithon, but they are of absolutely the same range of applicabiilty
<ox1eef>
on twitter python is what everyone learns and recommends, at least among the influencers
<ox1eef>
indeed, i think that too, theyre both as capable as each other.
<nakilon>
anyway, I've fully switched from pithon 9 years ago and don't wanna waste 90% of time again on solving the errors that are happening due to the bad language design and tooling
<ox1eef>
another cool thing written in python is youtube-dl
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<constxd>
apotheon: how to start learning spells tho
<apotheon>
practice, projects, and a good book perhaps
<apotheon>
probably need a wizard's tome, yeah
<constxd>
need fast track
<weaksauce>
eye of newt it is
<constxd>
what is the optimal wizard's tome
<apotheon>
Oh! Well, there's a fast-track method, called Learn Programming in Only Ten Years!
<constxd>
i don't need to learn programming just ruby
<apotheon>
The novice's tome for Ruby is Eloquent Ruby.
<apotheon>
Ah, that's much quicker than learning programming.
<constxd>
but i want to understand all the magic that most resources gloss over
<apotheon>
Start with Eloquent Ruby, then go to POODR or Understanding Computation, then whichever of them you didn't already read, then Metaprogramming Ruby.
<apotheon>
There's your path.
<constxd>
what if i start with metaprogramming ruby
<constxd>
will i be lost
<apotheon>
It turns out that's actually kind of a fast-track except maybe Understanding Computation (it depends on the student), because they're all very well-written books that are easy and fun for the talented student to get through.
<apotheon>
probably
<apotheon>
You'll definitely skip some very important stuff.
<apotheon>
Going straight to Metaprogramming Ruby is a great way to be a danger to yourself and others.
<apotheon>
There's some deep magic in Understanding Computation, too.
<apotheon>
I *suppose* you could get to Understanding Computation *after* Metaprogramming Ruby.
<constxd>
what about ruby under the microscope or whatever
<apotheon>
. . . but you should definitely get POODR between Eloquent and Metaprogramming.
<apotheon>
I haven't read it, yet, but I'd recommend that only after the other four. For one thing, it won't be as useful to you until you've gotten that far.
<apotheon>
probably won't, anyway; as I said, I haven't read it yet
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<constxd>
most of the programming i do is in my own toy language and it's so satisfying when you have good mental model of what everything is doing under the hood
<constxd>
then i'll run into something where i need a language with a better ecosystem and get frustrated because i don't understand exactly how everything works
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<constxd>
i want to know ruby as well as i know my own language so it feels automatic to write
<apotheon>
Well . . . I guess you could go for Microscope sooner, if you're less interested in wizardry-quickly.
<constxd>
man $85 cad for paperback Eloquent Ruby
<apotheon>
That's more sage area, not wizard area.
<apotheon>
Holy shit. Why is it that expensive?
<apotheon>
Go somewhere piracy is legal and get an ebook.
<apotheon>
(I think it's kinda clever how I avoided running afoul of the IRC network's rules against illegal stuff.)
<apotheon>
I'm kidding, obviously.
<apotheon>
Wow, it's about 53 USD on Amazon for the paperback.
<newton>
wonder if there aren't so many copies anymore? it was $30 USD in 2012 :^)
<newton>
library genesis, a totally real and normal library, has a lot of programming ebooks. encourage buying books that are reasonably priced.
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<constxd>
i like physical books
<constxd>
but yeah this is kinda pricy
<newton>
same. I tried doing the ebook thing, still prefer having the real thing on my shelf
<weaksauce>
i've seen eloquent ruby on github in a country where piracy is legal
<weaksauce>
i think it's out of print?
<newton>
github would remove it if it was DMCA'd, since github is in a jurisdiction where it isn't legal, I think
<apotheon>
newton: It's a nice library.
<apotheon>
newton: I agree with the encouragement of reasonably priced book sales.
<apotheon>
My big problem with Eloquent Ruby is the pricing and (if they're still doing it) DRM.
<newton>
i think weaksauce is right that it's probably not in print anymore. 11 years old now
<legit>
I wish Eloquent Ruby got an update
<apotheon>
constxd: get it from the friendly library
<apotheon>
newton: An epaper style ereader goes a long way toward making ebooks better.
<weaksauce>
guess not he retweeted someone last year
<newton>
weaksauce, he liked a 21h old tweet recently too
<newton>
I was not prepared to hear russ olsen died :')
<weaksauce>
oh that's good
<legit>
weaksauce: doesn't seem dead, but more interested in Clojure now
<apotheon>
newton: They're still different from dead tree format, but I find a DRM-free EPUB sideloaded on an epaper-style ereader is a trade-off rather than inferior.
<weaksauce>
i just saw his website hadn't been updated since 2015
<legit>
And Haskell heh
<weaksauce>
the copyright thing
<apotheon>
Yeah, he wrote a Clojure book in 2018, apparently.
<apotheon>
bummer
<apotheon>
Does Clojure compile to object code via LLVM yet?
<weaksauce>
the pdf of it was formatted well
<apotheon>
weaksauce: . . . of which?
<weaksauce>
i don't think epub is workable for programming books
<apotheon>
Why not?
<weaksauce>
eh the eloquent ruby
<apotheon>
PDFs are fucking *awful*.
<apotheon>
I found the EPUB of Eloquent quite nice.
<weaksauce>
probably is yeah since ruby code is double space indented
<apotheon>
Some programming books are definitely not as good in EPUBs, but that's largely a matter of how you organize the book, I think.
<weaksauce>
and most of it was prose anyway
<weaksauce>
and my physical copy is fairly small for a programming book too
<apotheon>
Head First C was not well-formatted for EPUB. Holy crap.
<apotheon>
It's also a Head First book, so . . . y'know, there are going to be issues.
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<apotheon>
It's notable, though, in that the topic areas it covers is about 50% of the way toward a C equivalent to Eloquent Ruby, which was interesting.
<apotheon>
The didactic style was crap, though, and while 50% is much closer than the vast majority of other books I've seen . . . it still doesn't measure up.
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<apotheon>
Ruby has an amazing lineup of high quality learning materials.
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<apotheon>
constxd: There's another path to wizardry, but it involves apprenticing with the right people, and much of that is a matter of lucking into the right people, so it's not something very susceptible to deterministically pursuing the path.
<apotheon>
constxd: Stay away from IDEs when learning it if you want to gain wizard skills, too.
<constxd>
dont worry i would never use a ruby ide
<constxd>
well maybe an lsp server
<newton>
i don't use vscode but lsp's being extracted into something a lot of editors can use is pretty awesome
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<apotheon>
Yeah, don't do that. Just lean heavily on ri and/or web-based Ruby class documentation.
<newton>
solargraph is a good lsp for ruby, though it struggles with large apps
<apotheon>
Using "smart" tools for it will hinder your development of wizardry.
<apotheon>
It's using someone else's wand with spells preset in it.
<apotheon>
I'd only use an LSP for corporate deathmarch shit, probably.
<apotheon>
. . . and not even that, because I wouldn't seek a corporate death march job.
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<apotheon>
I'd turn down a job that was overly corporatized unless I was planning to just pad a resume at the corp's expense (thus making the relationship between me and the employer equitable), and I refuse jobs that aren't remote work with highly flexible hours.
<apotheon>
. . . or maybe, instead of resume padding, preparing to be a whistleblower, I guess.
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