13:59 <ino> hi guys :) how are you doing?

14:17 <pipeweed[m]> hi

14:19 <ino> hello :)

14:49 <ino> hi! i had a silly question :) will there be a patching system for river in future like dwm?

14:50 <ifreund> ino: river is open source, you're free to patch it however you like. I won't officially support any patches though, only master branch and tagged releases

14:50 <ino> thanks for your response, isaac :)

15:37 <msiedlaczekelsh4> ino: nothing really stops you from having a collection of patches that one could apply over river. the problem is that these would need to be maintained, i.e., updated any time river makes changes, so it might be a good idea if you have a patch or fork containing some functionality that upstream won't merge for some reason (say, it's beyond the scope of their project and they don't want to maintain it, or whatever the reason might be).

15:39 <ino> you are right. the reason dwm patches do not break often because it had been under development for decade, and mostly mature now. but river is constantly changing, everyday, so today's patch might not work even after a month.

15:40 <msiedlaczekelsh4> I believe that in case of any suckless apps (including dwm), the reason is that they don't want to include any code in upstream that might not be used by someone, and they want to keep the code to the absolute minimum. I don't think there are many projects that work this way, though.

15:40 <msiedlaczekelsh4> yeah, that's a good point, maintaining patches for river at this stage of its development would probably be a nightmare

15:41 <ino> : )

15:42 <ino> suckless was pretty nice experience until I met surf

15:42 <ino> haha

15:46 <ino> but their dmenu is an iconic software. I saw most people love it.

15:46 <Nulo> Suckless people are assholes though... for one, they maintain an elitist view on software

15:47 <ino> hahaha

15:48 <ino> "minimal and elitist, so no novice asking stupid questions" -- from their billboard

15:49 <Nulo> Yes, they view that as a good thing

15:49 <msiedlaczekelsh4> Nulo: I wouldn't know, haven't had much experience with them. I don't agree with the approach, so I don't use their software. for one, to me not having any config except for a header file is just straight up annoying.

15:49 <Nulo> msiedlaczekelsh4, agreed

15:51 <Nulo> Ironically their most used piece of software, dmenu, doesn't follow that approach and is configured through args

15:51 <ino> st is nice. foot is the terminal st wanted to be.

15:52 <snakedye> I just see suckless as an excuse to make bad software

15:52 <Nulo> ino, foot is good st

15:52 <Nulo> (agreed)

15:52 <snakedye> Foot has features

15:52 <ino> haha. youre funny nulo.

15:52 <ino> : )

15:52 <snakedye> And a configuration

15:54 <Nulo> What made me quit was the lack of scrollback(!!)

15:54 <ino> I say, river has got the speed of dwm, the community of awesome, the config of i3, the extensibility of xmonad, and the elegance of bspwm.

15:55 <ino> after a decade, if river lives, it will be called a masterpiece.

15:56 <ifreund> now now, let's not get elitest :)

15:56 <Nulo> You forgot about the most important part: Zig /j

15:56 <snakedye> It's not as extensible as xmonad and the community is pretty small but besides that it's pretty good as it is

15:57 <ino> : )

15:57 <Nulo> For me, river allows me to do everything I did with sway without headscratching layouts

15:57 <ifreund> it's not as extensible yet, I have Ideas(tm) to improve that though

15:58 <Nulo> Gotta love trademarked Ideas

15:58 <ifreund> as for the community, that may change with time. I don't want to cause any premature/artifical growth though

15:59 <ifreund> ideally the implementation will be almost entirely stable before 1000s of users show up in this channel asking questions

15:59 <Nulo> Let's hope they aren't *gasp* stupid questions

16:00 <novakane> almost 1000 stars on github, gonna be drama all over the community after that :P

16:00 <msiedlaczekelsh4> yeah, I think the real potential for growth will be after 1.0

16:00 <Nulo> We must ensure this channel is purely integrated of intellectuals

16:00 <msiedlaczekelsh4> ppl will come and complain there are too many config options!

16:01 <ino> thanks isaac, leon, snake, novak and all others for the amazing work you are doing, and giving away your valuable time, so noob like me are now enjoying it to fullest. I can't thank enaf.

16:03 <snakedye> I would be invested in Wayland if I didn't start using river :)

16:08 <ino> (＾▽＾)

17:34 <ecocode__> I tried gnome wayland just to figure how it works. Scaling is ok, but when you drag a window from differently scaled screens, it is soon clunky

17:34 <ecocode__> s/soon/so/

19:31 <Nulo> dnkl, and decided to fix them

19:35 <dnkl> Nulo: nah, I just wanted a Wayland native terminal...

20:03 <Nulo> dnkl, fair enough!