cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: #pypy PyPy, the flexible snake https://pypy.org | IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end and https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/pypy | Matti: I made a bit of progress, the tests now only segfault towards the end
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<arigato> "pypy | DoS by large int<->str conversions": oooh yes, let's break something as fundamental as printing a large "int", that's a great idea CPython
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<antocuni> arigato: what are you talking about? :)
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<arigato> antocuni: sorry :-) it's the latest issue on the pypy tracker
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<jean-paul[m]> Haha. Awesome.
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<antocuni> so basically, in CPython you can change basically nothing to avoid backwards incompatibility, and if you try to do you get endless discussions
<antocuni> but if you say that it's "security", then you can do it without discussions? :)
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<jean-paul[m]> I think it relates a bit to whether you bother to have the discussion at all. If you're a committer, commit what you want. If you actually start a discussion beforehand though, then you might get in trouble. And security issues are kept private until the last moment so there's little discussion.
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<antocuni> yes, in this case it's a bit debatable whether it's a security problem or not, but I'm not an expert in the field and I surely don't want to be involved in such a discussion :)
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<antocuni> "hey if you do 'while True: pass' you might cause a DoS, so let's introduce a limit on how many iterations a while loop can do"
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<jean-paul[m]> meanwhile, pickle is still in the stdlib.
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<antocuni> actually, it would be interesting to design a new programming language in which for every loop you need to explicitly declare the expected O() complexity, and the language complains if it runs for more than expected :)
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<arigato> antocuni: such a programming language is actually not expressive enough: it cannot compute all turning-computable functions
<arigato> see e.g. https://everything2.com/title/bounded+iteration and the link to "primitive recursive"
<Alex_Gaynor> not for nothing, but this issue was discussed for like a year on the security list, amongst many committers
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<nimaje> antocuni: and how would it count that if you only give it a complexity class? you could have very large constant factors, better have some loop variant, that has to decrease in each iteration and can't get smaller then zero or can't decrease futher when it is already smaller than zero (e.g. dafny, jml, ...)
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