cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: #pypy PyPy, the flexible snake https://pypy.org | IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end and https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/pypy | insert pithy quote here
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<mattip> cfbolz: I ran the benchmarks on open-ended-traces, for some reason the upload failed after ~20 benchmarks
<mattip> against default, our benchmarks do not really show an improvement
<cfbolz> mattip: that's kind of expected
<mattip> (comparing only the executables "pypy-jit-64 latest in branch 'open-ended-traces'" and "pypy-jit-64 latest")
<cfbolz> It's a feature that we don't need in any of the benchmarks
<mattip> ahh, ok. I didn't see a concise explanation of what the branch does, please add it to the release notes
<mattip> as a highlight
<mattip> I merged to py3.8 and pushed
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<cfbolz> mattip: it's the one that we did for somebody's issue, where their web performance wasn't as good as our microbenchmarks
<cfbolz> (Django maybe?)
<cfbolz> And it was due to really big templates
<cfbolz> In other news, Facebook's other python vm is now open source: https://github.com/facebookexperimental/skybison
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<LarstiQ> hadn't even heard of this one
<cfbolz> LarstiQ: that's the greenfield second one
<cfbolz> It's dead now, afaict
<LarstiQ> the readme makes it look so, under the "Is this supported?" section
<tumbleweed> although it has recent commits
<mattip> it seems anaconda has adopted pyston
<mattip> so they now sponsor both pyston and numba
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<mattip> cfbolz: I wonder how we can get more real-world benchmarks into our suite so we can show these types of issues
<cfbolz> mattip: yeah, I don't know :-(
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<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-64/builds/377 [mattip: force build, py3.8]
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<bbot2> Exception: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/7842 [mattip: force build, py3.8]
<bbot2> Exception: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-64/builds/377 [mattip: force build, py3.8]
<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-64/builds/378 [mattip: force build, py3.8]
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<vstinner> mattip: hi. "I recently implemented compact strings for PyPy, following the CPython implementation" interesting. did you do that for make more C extensions compatible? or because it is more efficient for your usecase?
<vstinner> mattip: Inada-san wants to use UTF-8 in CPython, so the opposite
<cfbolz> vstinner: I think it's for the C api, yes
<vstinner> so to fully implement the CPython C API, one must simply copy the exact implementation of all Python objects. oh wait.
<cfbolz> there are certainly some parts of the API that prescribe the implementation, yes
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<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-64/builds/378 [mattip: force build, py3.8]
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<mattip> vstinner: I did compact strings for compatibility, the speed boost was an extra benefit
<mattip> if Inada-san uses UTF-8 in CPython, they can use the same pattern as we do
<mattip> for some reason, the C-API exposes many details around string storage, so indeed, implementing the C-API requires something much like the CPython implementation
<mattip> in the case of containers (dictionaries, lists, tuples, sets), there is less exposure
<mattip> ast and dis support also requires close adherance to the CPython implementation
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