cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: #pypy PyPy, the flexible snake https://pypy.org | IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end and https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/pypy | insert pithy quote here
yuiza has joined #pypy
<luckydonald> k
gef__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
[Arfrever] has quit [*.net *.split]
amirouche has quit [*.net *.split]
catern has quit [*.net *.split]
infernix has quit [*.net *.split]
antocuni has quit [*.net *.split]
antocuni has joined #pypy
[Arfrever] has joined #pypy
amirouche has joined #pypy
catern has joined #pypy
infernix has joined #pypy
luckydonald has quit [*.net *.split]
ctismer has quit [*.net *.split]
luckydonald has joined #pypy
ctismer has joined #pypy
the_drow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
ambv has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
ammar2 has quit [*.net *.split]
lastmikoi has quit [*.net *.split]
tazle has quit [*.net *.split]
dustinm has quit [*.net *.split]
lastmikoi has joined #pypy
dustinm has joined #pypy
ammar2 has joined #pypy
tazle has joined #pypy
daubers has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
lazka has quit [*.net *.split]
Hodgestar has quit [*.net *.split]
lazka has joined #pypy
Hodgestar has joined #pypy
jryans has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
jacob22 has quit [*.net *.split]
Ninpo has quit [*.net *.split]
il_ratto has quit [*.net *.split]
Corbin has quit [*.net *.split]
commandoline_ has quit [*.net *.split]
arigato has quit [*.net *.split]
krono has quit [*.net *.split]
commandoline has joined #pypy
arigo has joined #pypy
Ninpo has joined #pypy
il_ratto has joined #pypy
krono has joined #pypy
krono has quit [Changing host]
krono has joined #pypy
jacob22 has joined #pypy
mgorny has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
ambv has joined #pypy
daubers has joined #pypy
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
mgorny has joined #pypy
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
the_drow has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
mathieu1 has joined #pypy
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
glyph has quit [Quit: End of line.]
glyph has joined #pypy
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
jryans has joined #pypy
<cfbolz> morning
<fijal> cfbolz: hi
<yuiza> hi
Atque has joined #pypy
<mattip> I guess this has been around a while but I just saw it now
<cfbolz> mattip: yeah it has
<cfbolz> mattip: I think it started as a fork of the shootout
<cfbolz> when they stopped running more than one implementation per language
<mattip> it seems this is more "permissive" in terms of implementations
<mattip> I see cython and even some cffi
<cfbolz> mattip: yes, the shootout used to run pypy etc as well. but then somebody annoyed the maintainer and he ripped every "alternative" implementation out
<mattip> Is this now the home of the shootout (renamed to "game")?
<cfbolz> "now"
<cfbolz> yeah, sorry, that's me being confusing
<cfbolz> it's called that since almost from the start ;-)
Julian has joined #pypy
<mattip> I am mentoring an intern who chose to work on benchmarking NumPy - here is the PR
<mattip> and the rendered page
<mattip> so I started diving down the rabbit hole of n-body benchmarks
<mattip> (also motivated by your correspondence with Pierre)
<cfbolz> ah
<cfbolz> mattip: there is more pierre content in one of the recent issues, right?
<cfbolz> mattip: I fixed 3 of our own tests on 3.8
<cfbolz> I think that means we are down to cpyext, cffi and hpy problems
<antocuni> speaking about benchamrks, here is an interesting read: https://pythonspeed.com/articles/consistent-benchmarking-in-ci/
<antocuni> TL;DR: they suggest to use cachegrind to get consistent results instead of real-world hardware. It seems that sqlite is using this to drive their performance
<antocuni> I wonder how this applies to pypy
<fijal> ugh
<fijal> that seems... wrong?
<fijal> like if it's slower on cachegrind, how much does that have of a real world predictive power?
<fijal> (it does not aply to pypy because we run it on real hardware would be my answer)
<antocuni> the article suggests to combine the number of cpu instructions + L1 cache misses + L3 cache misses using some formula which gives a reasonable approximation of real world performance
<antocuni> maybe, but we also see a lot of variation between runs, which makes it hard to detect small improvements or slowdowns
lritter has joined #pypy
Atque has quit [Quit: ...]
<cfbolz> there is recent research that is better at estimating cycles
<cfbolz> but not sure it's a usable tool yet
<cfbolz> I mean, turning cycles into seconds
Atque has joined #pypy
Julian has quit [Quit: leaving]
gef has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
gef has joined #pypy
<mattip> how much slower than real-time is the cachegrind emulation?
<mattip> I guess you could use emulation for micro-benchmarks, but not for larger ones
stkrdknmibalz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
jacob22 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
yuiza has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
yuiza has joined #pypy
Corbin has joined #pypy
Julian has joined #pypy
ronan has joined #pypy
yuiza has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Julian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Julian has joined #pypy
Julian has quit [Client Quit]
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Dejan has joined #pypy
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
yuiza has joined #pypy
yuiza has left #pypy [#pypy]
mathieu1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
ronan__ has joined #pypy
ronan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
mattil has joined #pypy
ronan__ is now known as ronan
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<mattip> there are 4 test files with 10 or more failures on py3.8:
<mattip> test_dis.py (14), test_ast.py (10), test_idle.py (32), test_unittest (15)
<mattip> should we drop idle from the release? Is it commonly used with pypy?
<mattip> most of the unittest ones are "AssertionError: RuntimeWarning not triggered" in something around async
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
jacob22 has joined #pypy
mathieu1 has joined #pypy
<mattip> ahh, that happens when the coroutine is finalized, so probably a missing gc.collect()
gef_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
gef has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
gef has joined #pypy
gef_ has joined #pypy
Guest27 has joined #pypy
<Guest27> please don't drop IDLE from Py-3.8, better a buggy IDLE than no IDLE (and maybe no Tcl/Tk)
<Guest27> py-3.8 nightly with Tcl/tk works ok enough with my pet package, sqlite_bro,
<Guest27> and for basic stuff, like creating and runnin g a file with print("say : Please PyPy don't drop me out!"[5:]), IDLE works
<cfbolz> Guest27: thanks, that's helpful
<cfbolz> Guest27: would you be up to looking into the tk test failures though?
<Guest27> how do I run them on my PC ?
<cfbolz> Guest27: pypy3 -m test.test_idle
<cfbolz> With a nightly from the 3.8 branch
<Guest27> ok, on nightly from Juy29th, I get (failures=35, errors=8, skipped=1) for 579 tests
<Dejan> There is one from few days ago
<Guest27> on PyPy-7.3.5 same testing I get (failures=34, errors=6, skipped=1) for 566 tests.
<Guest27> so I don't understand your sudden doubt about shipping IDLE with Py-3.8, as it passes more test than with Py-3.7
<Guest27> as said, whatever the issues, they seem edge cases. and Tcl/Tk is already working well enough so I don't see an abvious problem in a pure Tcl/Tk/Ttk application
ronan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Guest27> when I run the pypy3 -m test.test_idle , it's like if I was clicking on all buttons at non-human speed, so it can triggers bug that we don't meet in practice
lritter has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
ronan has joined #pypy
otisolsen70 has joined #pypy
Julian has joined #pypy
otisolsen70 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<mattip> Guest27: we could really use help figuring out what is failing. I don't think it is because of the speed.
<mattip> Guest27: there is something a touch off in our cffi-based wrappers
mattil has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Julian has quit [Quit: leaving]
mathieu1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
stkrdknmibalz has joined #pypy
<Guest27> cffi and Hpy requires an expertise I don't think I have.
Guest27 has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
<mattip> Guest27: (for the logs), ok, thanks
<nimaje> seems like idlelib.idle_test.test_help_about.LiveDialogTest.test_printer_buttons is just broken on pypy, because you only have one line for {licene,credits}._Printer__lines instead of the full text and the test considers less than 2 lines as fail (no idea why)