<abu[m]>
Ubuntu 20 is not pil21, so it does not use libffi
<beneroth>
yeah
<abu[m]>
☺
<beneroth>
well it's in the name, Ubuntu 20, not 21, right? :D
<abu[m]>
But pil does not need a special ffi version. Where does the requirement come from?
<abu[m]>
Looks rather like the lib installations are corrupted (symbolic links to the .so files)
<abu[m]>
On my Debian there is ibffi.so.6 and ibffi.so.8
<aw->
hi abu[m] beneroth
<aw->
on my debian i have libffi.so.7 and pil21 links to that
<abu[m]>
Hi aw-
<beneroth>
aw-, which debian version? :)
<beneroth>
I guess Ubuntu 21.04 would work, but on Ubuntu 20.04 the stuff is missing
<beneroth>
succeeded in manually installing libffi.so.8 - now the picolisp binary complains about missing libc.so.6 :)
<aw->
beneroth: debian 11
<beneroth>
pil21 version 23.1.6
<beneroth>
aw-, yeah you're up to date :)
<aw->
how are you running Ubuntu without libc?
<abu[m]>
I find no referrence to a specific libffi-version in pil21
<beneroth>
aw-, it specifically asks for libc.so.6
<beneroth>
the picolisp binary
<aw->
maybe you didn't compile it correctly
<beneroth>
abu[m], maybe it just gets in automatically from LLVM ?
<beneroth>
nope I didn't
<beneroth>
I compiled it myself, but on another machine
<beneroth>
so yeah, that's definitely it :)
<aw->
beneroth: compiled on arm64, copied to x86-64 ?
<beneroth>
good point... server was provisioned by customer.. but I asked for amd64
<beneroth>
compiled on amd64
<beneroth>
nah its both amd64
<aw->
ok good
* Nistur
yawns
<beneroth>
aw-, good point though :)
<beneroth>
I will try with upgrading to ubuntu 21
<Nistur>
mornin' all
<beneroth>
hey Nistur !
<Nistur>
hullo :)
<beneroth>
hows livin' ?
<beneroth>
you're in Germany now?
<Nistur>
yes :P
<Nistur>
moved mid-Jan
<beneroth>
north or south? I forgot if I knew
<Nistur>
although, I feel we're still mid-move and will be for months yet
<beneroth>
welcome back in the EU :P
<Nistur>
Aachen
<Nistur>
or thereabouts
<beneroth>
haha, I moved in November and still feel like that
<abu[m]>
Still Winterthur? Or out of town?
<Nistur>
I had a friend message me recently saying "have you played wround with Penti?"
<beneroth>
abu[m], still Winterthur
<beneroth>
Nistur, nice
<beneroth>
so did he/she?
<Nistur>
He had been playing with it then yes, and is now considering building a physical one, although not as silly as mine, which saddens me
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<beneroth>
tell him sillyness-level 5/7 is required for penti
<Nistur>
when people plan their projects, the deciding factor should always be "how much silly can I squeeze into this?"
<beneroth>
or steampunk version like the original old one by abu[m]
<beneroth>
Nistur, well my problem is, many customer projects are already beyond silly :-/
<Nistur>
:D
<Nistur>
I have also (sort of) used lisp for work! :P
<Nistur>
although not picolisp :(
<Nistur>
We have an in game chat system - currently not in the released game because we have no multiplayer in that. I am not sure if it will ever be, it is just debug UI, and part of a sort of proof of concept thing... but the chat system "works"... so I wondered if we could have a standalone app for it... I mean, it is just doing a few POST calls, and some communication over a websocket...
<Nistur>
I didn't write anything myself though, as I am meant to be working on... the game
<Nistur>
so I asked ChatGPT to see if it could do it... as a test... I'm working in emacs, so I figured "let's see if it can write me some elisp"...
<Nistur>
I gave it some prompts like "write me an elisp function that will do a POST request with a username and password and return a login token in an XML in this format"... and... it did it... It has written me an entire chat client, major mode, communication, everything... It made a LOT of mistakes, but I didn't write any code to fix it, I just copied it the error messages, or described the faulty
<Nistur>
behaviour... and it fixed it
<Nistur>
which was weird
<beneroth>
well it has no understanding of the principles per se (it has no ontology), but its a very advanced text autocompleter
<Nistur>
oh yes, I'm aware, that's why I was surprised by how well it did
<beneroth>
even weirder I find the picture and video/audio generation nowadays.. we're already at the point where pictures are completely real and believable except for number of fingers...
<abu[m]>
At least a lot of fun I suppose
<Nistur>
the fingers thing is mostly sorted now actually
<beneroth>
photos/video/audio should be soon banned as legal proof. probably a lot of shit will happen before the system catches up.
<beneroth>
Nistur, it surely will be sorted in months or very few years.
<Nistur>
i've seen very belieavable hands from a bunch of models now
<Nistur>
The models are not perfect yet, sure
<Nistur>
if you look closely, you can see some imperfections, or things which don't look quite right
<beneroth>
yep.
<beneroth>
but that can be fixed with more adversary learning
<Nistur>
but then, that might just be someone "touching up" a photo and doesn't necessarily scream AI any more
<beneroth>
well... porn industry replaced by some computers....
<beneroth>
blackmail fake photos...
<beneroth>
ChatGPT will probably increase, not reduce, the management bullshitery in companies, no?
<Nistur>
So in... 2007 I think it was... I went on a week long hike through Iceland. It was a group thing, where my girlfriend, their family and I joined a few other people and had a guide... not some kind of wilderness thing... anyway, one of the people worked in a university, and they were doing some research into... some kind of tactile displays aimed at disabled people. Can't remember precisely. Anyway, they
<Nistur>
were saying that they had porn companies willing to throw HUGE amounts of money at them
<Nistur>
porn invests a LOT in technology
<Nistur>
well, in the technology that will accept their money
<Nistur>
not all universities do :P
<beneroth>
abu[m], aw-, upgraded Ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 (oh it directly went to 22... well ok)
<beneroth>
now pil21 runs
<beneroth>
well kinda expected
<beneroth>
Nistur, yep. they were also very early in VR. and on the internet anyway.
<beneroth>
because it also makes a whole lot money
<beneroth>
did you already reply to bullshit emails from managers/customers with output from ChatGPT ?
<abu[m]>
beneroth: Good! ☺
<Nistur>
beneroth: me? No, I haven't had any bullshit emails :P
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<Nistur>
I don't really have any customer interaction apart from players' messages on discord, forum, and a few bug reports... and players tend to not bullshit too much
<beneroth>
lucky you :)
<beneroth>
so when are you adding ChatGPT to NPC talking? :P
<Nistur>
:D
<beneroth>
Nistur, Tibia had/has a ingame system where you can chat with NPCs, instead of fixed options, though the mechanic just reacts to certain keywords. made it feel a bit like a natural conversation. I expect more into that direction, at least for the ones who can finance a ChatGPT API connection or so....
<beneroth>
Tibia from 1997, the first mobile MMO afaik. I never played it, just tried it out once when I meet them at a conference
<Nistur>
yeah, I looked into that, because I was wondering if I could get it to write some emacs where it would automagically write me code, and iterate on the errors :P Buuuuuuut they have 4 models, and the one you want, Davinci, is like $0.02 / 1000 tokens (~750 words)
<Nistur>
and while... that's not a HUGE amount in the grand scheme of things...
<Nistur>
that's an amount that I could very easily burn through a lot of money
<Nistur>
Their cheapest one, Ada, is $0.0004 / 1000 tokens
<Nistur>
but that couldn't write code
<beneroth>
I see
<beneroth>
yeah they will milk what they can out of that
<Nistur>
I remember in... um... probably 2013, I was at a conference and there was a demo of a web/mobile app which was just a conversation between NPCs. They just talked on their own, and I _believe_ about different things each time. It _may_ have been a murder mystery that you had to solve, I forget. But you could interrupt the conversation and they would answer you, and the topic of the conversation would
<Nistur>
change etc
<Nistur>
I am pretty sure it was 90% smoke and mirrors
<Nistur>
because that's what games mostly are
<Nistur>
but I could imagine that something like ChatGPT could do something very similar
<Nistur>
in fact, I know for a fact it's already _very_ good at creating fiction... I've got it writing a whoooooooole lot of that
<Nistur>
it's not great at consistency
<Nistur>
so it keeps changing names and details... but presumably if you were to have a game with this sort of system, you'd be able to have a set of truths that it could reference that would solve that
<beneroth>
yeah exactly, I think the same
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