<dh`>
the problem with parser generators and error messages is that yacc is 40-year-old tech by now, ocamlyacc is a slavish clone, and menhir is only slightly more advanced
<dh`>
but it's also really hard to get traction with anything different
<dmbaturin>
dh`: What approach offers better error reporting?
<dh`>
the parser generator knows the state you were in and the unexpected token it saw
<dh`>
it is perfectly capable of producing a reasonably coherent error message, it just doesn't because it's not entirely trivial in the generator code and nobody wants to work on it
<dh`>
like I said, it's really hard to get traction with anything different
<dmbaturin>
Well, .messages is a pretty big step forward.
<dh`>
yeah
<dh`>
is it documented somewhere?
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<dmbaturin>
Menhir's docs could be better... that post I linked above is an attempt to make up for it.
<dmbaturin>
Well, they aren't bad, but I'd like to see more examples there.
<dh`>
given that it only has to compete with ocamlyacc, whose docs are last I recall pretty much nonexistent... well
<dh`>
anyway I'll take a look at that
<dh`>
quick scan suggests it's all rather exposed cogs and pulleys
<dmbaturin>
The parser indeed knows the state, but translating it to a coherent message isn't always trivial even for a human.
<dh`>
I've had in mind for years a scheme for doing best-fit approximate parses to generate actually good syntax errors
<dh`>
but haven't had time to build it uot
<dmbaturin>
I'd be very curious to try it out.
<dh`>
right, part of the problem is that parser generators are slaves to their automata models and it doesn't occur to the people writing them to break out of that model when it would be useful
<companion_cube>
What would that mean?
<dh`>
one fairly obvious possibility: inspecting extra lookahead tokens after reaching an error state
<dh`>
or disambiguating what rule you're actually in by looking at the stack
<companion_cube>
Hmm the second one seems unclear to me, unless you mean the user could do that
<dh`>
the generated code could
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<companion_cube>
By definition if it's ambiguous, it means the stack doesn't help :D
<dh`>
well, if the grammar itself is ambiguous it should be rejected :-)
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<companion_cube>
Ah, yes, conflating two issues.
<dh`>
the issue I think we were talking about is when you have a token sequence that can mean X or Y and you accidentally write something that causes the parser to proceed on Y even though you meant an X
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<companion_cube>
I think the main menhir authors have been working towards better error recovery, but it's just hard
<dh`>
and so you get an error like "missing semicolon after Y" when you don't even have a Y
<dh`>
oh, it's definitely hard
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<dh`>
...at least compared to deterministically grinding rulesets into automata
<dh`>
why does the menhir incremental interface expose its internal state?
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<dh`>
surely it should just be f: parserstate -> token -> result where result = Done of value | Error of error-info | Ok of parserstate
<dh`>
that is, you shouldn't need to do anything other than feed it tokens until it either finishes or complains
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<b0o>
dmbaturin: is there an efficient way to do it without mutability?
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<d_bot>
<crab> Does ocaml have native data science and ml libraries?
<hackinghorn>
there is ml in Ocaml, its the last 2 letters
<d_bot>
<NULL> I imagine it's not the L user expected
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<d_bot>
<hcarty> @creativcoder There are some building blocks in place. Not to the extent you have in Python for example. Owl is probably the most complete
<d_bot>
<hcarty> https://ocaml.xyz/ is the project's main site if you want to check it out
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<d_bot>
<Fermion> I don't know if it's blastphemy to say such things but f# might satisfy your ML needs and I think the .net ecosystem has a pretty serious collection of machine learning/data science libraries
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<d_bot>
<crab> I would honestly use f# instead for data science and ml, but I was wondering if ocaml had some support
<d_bot>
<crab> Honestly, for me I would use ocaml for lang dev
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<d_bot>
<rawburt> in what sense?
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<nefarious>
How do I learn all about the OCaml type system? I want to start working on some of the OCaml type system development work.
<companion_cube>
there's papers and PhD theses, mostly
<nefarious>
Ahh... no softer introduction?
<nefarious>
Not a fan of sifting through dense mathematics
<companion_cube>
honestly, I'm afraid that digging into the type system requires some mathematics
<nefarious>
I agree, but not the mathematics they put in PhD theses :)
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<companion_cube>
true, true.
<companion_cube>
skme more recent aspects like GADTs are probably quite hairy though.
<nefarious>
Ok, anyways, well what are those papers and theses then... if I must
<companion_cube>
I do wonder why there isn't a nice "bibliography" page on the website (cc octachron? :3)
<nefarious>
Ahh I just want to work on type systems
<nefarious>
I asked some Haskell folk and it was even worse over there
<d_bot>
<darrenldl> @rawburt (i dont think irc users see which message you're replying to)
<d_bot>
<darrenldl>
<d_bot>
<darrenldl> but im guessing some if what dh meant was some things are more difficult without a lexing stage
<d_bot>
<darrenldl> and you dont get static analysis (as a compilation step) on whether your parser has conflicts etc
<d_bot>
<darrenldl> parsing things like comments will require you to essentially do a text replace pass before feeding into a constructed parser in combinator world
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<LACampbell>
where is everyone here chatting if not IRC?
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<zozozo>
LACampbell: the IRC channel is bridged with a discord channel (through d_bot on the irc side)
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<d_bot>
<Inst> why are all the bot relays cats?
<d_bot>
<NULL> Why not I guess, it's a way to have different images for every user
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<d_bot>
<Alistair> Bonsai uses ppx let to implement something like Yallops arrow calculus, which is similar
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<romildo>
When building irmin on NixOS I am getting some type errors:
<romildo>
File "src/irmin/commit.ml", line 493, characters 19-37:
<romildo>
493 | let n, v = decode_bin buf off in
<romildo>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<romildo>
Error: This expression has type string but an expression was expected of type
<romildo>
'a * 'b
<romildo>
I have tried the 3 latest versions of irmin.
<romildo>
I have also tried with ocaml 4.8, 4.9, 4.10, 4.11, 4.12 e 4.13.
<romildo>
Any clues?
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<kakadu>
you should check in which library function decode_bin is declared.
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<dmbaturin>
You should also use a paste service like bpaste.net :)
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<hackinghorn>
hi, what are these [@@ ] and [@@@ ] I'm seeing?
<hannes>
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=231075) -- any clues how to deal with that (nowadays, it looks like TARGET_armv7 and MODEL_armv7 is used, but that leads to no definition of Saved_return_address and Callback_link in runtime/stack.h)
<hannes>
so, how would one push a TARGET_arm through the autoconf layer? how does this work on e.g. a GNU/Linux system?
<hannes>
(in runtime/Makefile I see OC_NTAIVE_CPPFLAGS= -DNATIVE_CODE -DTARGET_$(ARCH) -- and ARCH should be arm -- but somehow it is armv7!? (unfortunately I don't have a armv7 FreeBSD system to conduct testing)
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<Anarchos>
i have a Unix.read on a socket which is blocked, but netstat show that the sender (netcat) has a Send-Q at 32768. I don't know how to investigate why the read call doesn't eat the 32768 bytes ?
<d_bot>
<NULL> I can't find a way to add a `[@warning "-8"]` in a monadic `let*` binding. Am I missing something ?
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