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<xe`>
Manis are you trying to save power/money?
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<Manis>
xe`: Of course, both are desirable values ;-)
<xe`>
So i can only speak for myself but I used to think in terms of this but when I moved to a SoC that idles in the low single digits i moved to always on devices. Since then power has gone up but I think even today I would make this decision. The advantages of LE being instantly available vs the problem suspend always adds make this a reasonable cost
<xe`>
for me. Have you thought of it in those terms?
<k-man>
For some reason CEC control has stopped working for me. I’ve changed nothing. Multiple reboots and power cycles haven’t fixed it. Any ideas why it would stop working?
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<LEBot>
[slack] <CvH> RPi ?
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<Manis>
xe`: For some reason it just goes against my head to have a device idle for ~22 hours a day, especially since I already have a SoC running TVheadend 24/7.
<Manis>
I can reason for having TVheadend running constantly (background channel scans and EPG updates, recordings), but what would the Kodi do all they long?
<Manis>
I could consider moving TVheadend to Kodi, but then I'd probably go for a full desktop OS instead of LibreELEC.
<xe`>
Not pushing you one way or another but in my tests for an allwinner H6 SoC for some context
<xe`>
idle for 30+min 27-28C 2.1W ethernet disabled and screen blank on
<xe`>
power off for 5+min 27C 1.5W no fluctuation
<xe`>
Ambient ~20C
<xe`>
suspend for 5+min 27C 1.9W no fluctuation
<xe`>
you can see that quickly in some scenarios you could do a lot of work for very little gain. YMMV radically so this is just something to thnk about. The days of x86 and dozens of watts on idle state are long gone if you go SoC route
<Manis>
how does 1.5W in power off make sense?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> TX6 has no PMIC, so there is only so much you can do
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<Manis>
TX6?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> I think xe talks about Tanix TX6 TV box, based on Allwinner H6.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> removing PMIC (which many other H6 designs have) is a cost cutting thing
<Manis>
Ah.
<xe`>
yes sorry I never said because I was trying to make a general point about the scale of these savings vs the effort.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> It's possible other designs would save more energy, but there is another trade off
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<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> many users requested CEC as a wake up source and that of course leaves more peripherals active, which in turn means higher consumption in stand by
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> same with IR
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> so, it's possible to have very low power consumption, but then it's not user friendly
<Manis>
I was thinking, as a compromise maybe it would be possible to configure Kodi to shutdown after a certain idle time. But then of cource the "IR wakeup" problem reappears.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> what kind of "IR wakeup" problem?
<Manis>
If the SoC shut down you couldn't wake it up using the remote.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> That's why most SoCs for TV boxes have low power co-processor
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Allwinner H6 have one based on OpenRISC core running at 32 kHz, if I'm not mistaken.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> When it receives appropriate signal, it then wake up main ARM cores
<Manis>
Does any of these run LibreELEC?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Yes, all supported boards based on Allwinner A64, H3, H5 and H6 have resume/suspend functionality supported in LE images
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> but exact details depends on board design
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<Manis>
jernej: could you recommend an Allwinner box/board?
<Manis>
How is performance compared to e.g. RK3399?
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<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> RK3399 is much better in terms of raw computing power, but you don't need that for watching movies
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> (compared to H6, which is best of supported bunch)
<Manis>
If you have hardware acceleration.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> of course, but if those SoCs wouldn't have HW acceleration, it wouldn't be suitable for LE
<Manis>
Is the H6 capable of rendering the Kodi menu fluid? I also tried LibreELEC on a RPi3 and the menu was stuttery. No comparison to Rockchip.
<Manis>
Which I guess is the reason that the set of supported SoCs changes on every release?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Depends who you ask. Menu fluidity is ok for me but some complain. Some also report problems I don't experience, so YMMV.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> And no, menu fluidity is really not that important metric for support decision.
<Manis>
I was referring to hardware acceleration when talking about support.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Note, RK has currently better feature support than H6 (mainly 10-bit output), but I'm working on that.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> ah, yes, HW acceleration is must have.
<Manis>
but very fragile?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> what do you mean by "fragile"?
<Manis>
I'm wondering what's the reason that the list of SoCs supported changes on each release?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Mainly depends on developers time & motivation (big part)
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> but there are also technical reasons
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<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> first point is mostly for adding new support and second mosty for removing them
<Manis>
Once support is properly implemented (say in the mainline kernel) shouldn't things just continue to "work"?
<xe`>
My last 4 main LE boxes have been, custom PC in hifi like case £1000, Acer Revo ~£200, Khadas VIM £100 for three and Tanix TX6. If you have been at this for years its hard to break habits. I came to the conclusion that when a box is < £50 and idles at tiny watts the game is won... put LE on every TV and upgrade every couple of years.
<Manis>
My comfort zone is more "buy once, configure as you wish, keep for 15 years".
<Manis>
Maybe that's why I'm struggling with finding a good Kodi box…
<Manis>
Until recently I was using a BoxeeBox, but had to eventually retire it because more sites drop TLS 1.0 support :-(
<xe`>
That 100% was my thinking. I would suggest its not the way to think now for a pure LE media box.
<Manis>
Then I tried LibreELEC on RPi3 but wasn't really happy with the performance (especially in the menus), so the next try was a RockPI 4 with LibreELEC which is perfect, apart from no remote and no suspend.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Manis: RPi1 would technically still work, but poorly
<Manis>
I was testing it on an RPi3, not an RPi1.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> I know, I just want you to tell, that being able to build image is not enough
<Manis>
OK, got it.
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<Manis>
xe`, are you happy with the Tanix TX6? What remote do you use with it?
<Manis>
Many of the boxes I checked only come with a 5 or so button remote which is too little for controlling Kodi.
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<xe`>
The remote that came with the bundle which is very basic. But for me thats better since i need WAF and kids press buttons
<Manis>
so the logic is: fewer buttons -> fewer reconfigurations in the options and context menus?
<xe`>
most of TVs are still VIM1 only because during covid i could not addord down time to change and they keep on ticking
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Manis: IR power up command is hard coded into firmware and it matches remote which comes with it. If you want to change that, you have to build your own image.
<xe`>
the logic was... use the ones that came with the VIM1... realise i actually didnt need most buttons 95% of the time... life happened and we got used to it
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<xe`>
something to ponder. you could buy a SoC. I am being careful not to recommend one specific one. Play with it. Try it for months and still get most your money back.
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> Manis: just to clear misunderstandings - only power up/resume is affected (done from within special firmware). For power down/suspend, you can map whatever remote you want, since it's done from Linux.
<Manis>
Got it!
<Manis>
jernej: You're talking about the Tanix TX6, correct?
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<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> yes, but it's same story for other boards
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> when board doesn't come with remove, RC6 MCE remote is assumed
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> *remote
<Manis>
I have no idea how "standard" this is.
<Manis>
Aren't there universal remotes where the codes can be reprogrammed?
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> of course
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> well, something must be put as default and RC6 MCE (Windows Media Center) remotes seem to be popular after quick search
<LEBot>
[slack] <jernej> anyway, that doesn't matter for TX6
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