dgilmore changed the topic of #fedora-riscv to: Fedora on RISC-V https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/RISC-V || Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/fedora-riscv || Alt Arch discussions are welcome in #fedora-alt-arches
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<rwmjones> morning
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<davidlt[m]> rwmjones: this man page: https://libguestfs.org/nbdkit-client.1.html
<davidlt[m]> why the actual man page talks about "nbdkit-service" not the "nbdkit-client"?
<rwmjones> davidlt[m]: one sec, in a meeting
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<davidlt[m]> and I assume nbdkit does not have it's own client. "nbd-client" comes from a different source package.
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<rwmjones> davidlt[m]: I'm back
<rwmjones> so NBD is a network protocol, and there are various interoperable clients and servers
<rwmjones> nbd-client is a userspace tool for configuring the Linux kernel client (nbd.ko)
<rwmjones> it creates Linux devices like /dev/nbdX
<rwmjones> but there are also pure userspace clients, like libnbd, nbdsh, nbdinfo etc
<rwmjones> on the server side there are at least 3 serious servers, all running in userspace: nbd-server, nbdkit and qemu-nbd
<davidlt[m]> Do you know if efforts to have NBD client within kernel is dead? I recall there was a patchset back in 2019.
<rwmjones> there were patches just today
<davidlt[m]> really!?
<rwmjones> the title of that man page is wrong - will fix
<davidlt[m]> is this just NBD block device stuff?
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<rwmjones> did that one go upstream?
<davidlt[m]> no
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<rwmjones> there are already some nbdroot parameters, but dracut runs nbd-client to configure the kernel
<davidlt[m]> IIUC because each nbd server has it's own handshake protocol.
<rwmjones> that's not true ..
<rwmjones> the kernel defers handshaking to userspace
<davidlt[m]> Seems Debian has something too, slightly different.
<rwmjones> but there's a well-defined handshake protocol which all clients obey
<rwmjones> there's "oldstyle" vs "newstyle" variants of the handshake, but everyone should be using newstyle for the last 10 years
<davidlt[m]> So no one is working on having the client within the kernel these days?
<rwmjones> not that I'm aware of, but I don't follow kernel development that closely
<rwmjones> most attempts at nbdroot bundle nbd-client into the minimal initramfs and run it to configure the kernel
<rwmjones> also we hardly ever use the kernel nbd client, we use either qemu or libnbd as client
<rwmjones> for disk image pipelines
<rwmjones> oirase.annexia.org/tmp/disk-image-pipelines.mp4
<davidlt[m]> So one shouldn't use nbd-client in initramfs ? qemu or libnbd is preferred?
<rwmjones> it's fine .. the use cases are just very different
<rwmjones> we use NBD as a protocol for copying disk images around efficiently
<rwmjones> and mostly they are VM images so we only care that the hypervisor (qemu) can talk nbd to a userspace server
<rwmjones> the kernel client and /dev/nbdX devices are just not useful to us
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<rwmjones> but this is a completely different use case from (eg) mounting tmpdisk nbd devices on RISC-V machines
<davidlt[m]> Interesting
<rwmjones> my talk on disk image pipelines explains the copying usecase
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<rwmjones> hmm toyota cuts production by 40% .. big news
<davidlt[m]> "because of the global microchip shortage."
<davidlt[m]> this will continue for quite some time
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