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<beach>
pjb: I think I have taken steps to make myself as replaceable as possible. Most of the techniques are documented in the form of published papers or in the specification. Much of the code has been extracted to independent repositories, usually well documented and including tests. Remaining code is often highly modular and often well commented.
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<beach>
pjb: Bike and karlosz know the compiler fairly well. heisig knows a lot about HIR because he wrote the HIR evaluator. The register allocator was largely written by hayley. The reader is Eclector, so scymtym knows about it. heisig also wrote the entire implementation fo the sequence functions.
<beach>
pjb: That leaves the details of the bootstrapping technique that I am currently the only one who understands.
<beach>
Plus, the bootstrapping procedure not being entirely finished, the documentation is not accurate at this point.
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<beach>
Gnuxie knows the assembler and the disassembler. lonjil did a large part of the printer.
<beach>
froggey did the struct module.
<beach>
pjb: Is that good enough?
<beach>
I would love to have someone else work on bootstrapping, because that aspect is essential for a final system.
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Good Morning Everyone!
<beach>
Hello CodeBitCookie[m].
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
SBCL is giving me an error
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
"Unable to load any of the alternatives: libssl ......."
<beach>
FFI stuff?
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
[Condition of type CFFI:LOAD-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-INSTEAD]
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
beach: yes
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
when trying to (ql:quickload :my-project)
<mfiano>
Make sure you are using the latest release of SBCL and the Quicklisp dist, and then probably a question for #sbcl
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
I get this on many projects depending on what I put in ":depends-on"
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
mfiano: okay. I have SBCL Version 2.1.2 and Quicklisp is already latest
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<flip214>
CodeBitCookie[m]: you need to have some libraries available - in this case, OpenSSL.
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<akater[m]>
CLHS lists the following Method Signatures for remove-method:
<akater[m]>
IIUC, it means, the implementation must define a method with specializers (standard-generic-function t). SBCL only has (STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION METHOD). Is it my misunderstanding of CLHS, or is it SBCL?
<beach>
Which means that the consequences are undefined if a method is not given to REMOVE-METHOD.
<akater[m]>
Yes, now I agree. Thank you.
<beach>
So SBCL just defines those consequences to be that there is no applicable method in that case.
<beach>
Pleasure.
<beach>
And this is a case for WSCL.
<beach>
minion: Please tell akater[m] about WSCL.
<minion>
akater[m]: WSCL: Well-Specified Common Lisp. Pronounce it as "whistle". A project to revise the Common Lisp standard in a non-controversial way. See https://github.com/s-expressionists/wscl
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<lcao201>
Hi I am a LISP newbie and reading Practical Common LISP book but have trouble with one of the examples. Could someone help me? The book is at https://gigamonkeys.com/book/
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<beach>
Which example?
<hexology>
lcao201: go ahead and ask your question, someone will answer if they have an answer. as they say, "don't ask to ask"
<lcao201>
Under the heading "Updating Existing Records--Another Use for WHERE", I typed the snippet but the code never updates the *db* global var
<lcao201>
The code is this:
<lcao201>
(defun update (selector-fn &key title artist rating (ripped nil ripped-p))
<beach>
Please use a paste site.
<lcao201>
(setf *db*
<lcao201>
(mapcar
<lcao201>
#'(lambda (row)
<lcao201>
(when (funcall selector-fn row)
<beach>
Too late.
<lcao201>
(if title (setf (getf row :title) title))
<lcao201>
(if artist (setf (getf row :artist) artist))
<lcao201>
I guess the author is referring the same pattern as WHERE?
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<beach>
What is the value of *db* before and after you run the snippet?
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<lcao201>
let me rerun the whole thing
<Jach>
lcao201: Maybe start at the beginning of the chapter's snippets and type them in, I just did that and it works fine (updates the ratings from 9 and 8 to 11).
<lcao201>
Jack, thank you for confirming this! Must be something in the code then. Here is my whole file. https://pastebin.com/gbgrt6ts
<lcao201>
I mean my code not the author's code.
<_death>
(if title (equal (getf cd :title title) t))
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<Jach>
_death found it
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<lcao201>
IC. Thanks! Let me try fixing it.
<lcao201>
Yes it works now! Thanks to Jach and _death and others for your help!
<pjb>
beach: that sounds good enough. Nonetheless, Live Long and Prosper! ;-)
<beach>
pjb: Thanks!
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<lisp123>
Any good resources on the theory of testing in interactive languages like Common Lisp?
<lisp123>
(not testing frameworks, but reasoning / thoughts /etc as it applies to interactive development)
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<beach>
lisp123: It seems to me you always want to start with a fresh image so that everything is in a well defined state that can be repeated.
<beach>
lisp123: If this were SICL, I would say "fresh global environment" instead, but the only option you have in current Common Lisp implementations to get a fresh global environment is to start a fresh image.
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<lisp123>
beach: Multiple global environments sounds a great quality of life improvement
<beach>
Indeed. And lately I have been thinking that they are a necessity for a single-image IDE.
<mariari>
beach: there could be a lot of refactoring improvements with first class environments, at least I envision having tools akin to what unison has in regards to refactoring images
<beach>
With current Common Lisp implementations, it is just too easy to destroy the (single) global environment, and thereby the IDE too.
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<beach>
mariari: You mean using first-class global environments to help with refactoring? How would that work?
<lisp123>
Yes (at least for me, I do M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp a lot, which I think is a fair precaution)
<beach>
lisp123: It is an "unfortunate necessity" rather than "a fair precaution" in my opinion.
<lisp123>
Agreed
<rotateq>
lisp123: why do you restart so often?
<mariari>
yeah! From what I've seen on Unison they do this at a type level so when types change and changes cascade, you can commit back the changes after everything fits together. For CL in particular we could recompile parts that we know has to play together in a new environment, and then merge the changes when we are more confident the whole system works together, maybe a swap replacement of the old
<mariari>
image, or diffing it if new data has come into the old env while time has passed
<beach>
Yes, I see. Interesting idea.
<mariari>
I think there is a lot of very cool ideas that can be had once first class environments become more common
<lisp123>
rotateq: I don't have a list on me, sometimes its running a computation that exceeds the stack, sometimes its clashing symbols after recompiling certain parts of code (the latter I could probably solve without restarting - but I have an easy workflow - restart lisp -> asdf:load-system)
<beach>
mariari: I think so too.
<etimmons>
I would love to have first class environments. The lack of them is largely what drove me to implement my dependency manager as a second process
<rotateq>
do you mean exceeding the heap size? or really the stack?
<beach>
etimmons: Hmm. Yes, I can see that.
<lisp123>
rotateq: Sorry, I'm not 100% clear on terminology, just when my computation is too big (since I work a lot with permutations and factorials can get big fast)
<pve>
lisp123: I even have a hotkey for restarting my session. Complete heresy, I know.
<rotateq>
so you should look out how to cancel out things before even computing anything
<beach>
rotateq: I restart often when I run SICL bootstrapping with SBCL as a host, simply because each execution of the bootstrapping procedure adds methods to some Common Lisp generic functions, and that results in a gradual slowdown of the entire computation. It is much easier to restart than to remove those methods.
<pve>
lisp123: yeah, restarting the session also runs tests etc.
<beach>
lisp123: Erik Sandewall was THE professor of computer science where I went to university. He was in fact the first such professor in Sweden. I was very lucky to have him (and his other group members) as a teacher.
<lisp123>
beach: Small World! That must have been a great experience. Well I will definitely read it in depth now
<beach>
lisp123: Thanks to him, I learned LISP in 1977 or so.
<lisp123>
pve: Agreed
<rotateq>
beach: Your bootstrapping magic. :)
<rotateq>
beach: So how shall I ever catch up to your experience? ^^
<lisp123>
beach: That would have been amazing to LISP in those very times
<beach>
rotateq: After my death, every second you spend still being alive, you will catch up.
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<rotateq>
Hopefully will never come.
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<jeosol>
Good morning all!
<jeosol>
lisp123: Thanks for linking that paper about, should be a good read. Will definitely be reading it sometime
<rotateq>
hey jeosol
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<rotateq>
beach: There is a myth that Donald Knuth will die in the moment he finishes book 7 (Compilers) of The Art of Computer Programming.
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<beach>
Heh!
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<rotateq>
But who will check sent issues and writes the symbolic checks? :)
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<lisp123>
jeosol: You are welcome :) P.S. I subscribed to ACM to read some of their papers, if anybody wants an article from there, ping me and hopefully I will have access
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<char>
Has there ever been an effor to get common lisp into high schools?
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<energizer>
char there are some people doing Racket in high schools
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<hayley>
I did Common Lisp in highschool.
<hayley>
Self-taught but I used it in an assignment.
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