00:29 <firefrommoonligh> <adamgreig[m]> "or ariane 5: extremely safety-..." <- Yikes!

08:18 <RobertJrdens[m]> <adamgreig[m]> "or ariane 5: extremely safety-..." <- That's not accurate.

08:18 <RobertJrdens[m]> The f64->i16 conversion failed and the error was detected but not handled thus bubbled up (note that the originating code served no purpose after lift-off), both SRIs shut down (same code, same result: redundancy here designed only to protect against uncorrelated errors) with the last SRI sending some diagnostic pattern, the latter then being interpreted by the OBC as nozzle deflections.

08:18 <RobertJrdens[m]> Hence it's not like a Result<i16> would have helped here. More like memory unsafe sharing between crash dump and data combined with (root cause) design/spec failure.

08:20 <RobertJrdens[m]> <dirbaio[m]> "in-band error values like that..." <- Niche optimization is exactly that. The only difference being that it's now the compiler's responsibility.

08:21 <IsaBang[m]> using 8u rather than u16 or u32 have a sense ?

11:15 <JamesMunns[m]> <IsaBang[m]> "using 8u rather than u16 or..." <- Sometimes! When you want to limit the value in the range 0..=255 (like RGB color channels), or when you are storing lots of something (like a big array of pixels or sensor values with small variance)

11:17 <JamesMunns[m]> But in most cases, we're using a 32/64-bit processor, so using u8 as a loop variable or something is unlikely to make a huge difference

11:28 <IsaBang[m]> can it be reused by the memory alignment process ? to load and unload a stack of 8 variable value in a register  in a single instructions?

11:29 <IsaBang[m]> I heard that using enum are not memory efficient? 

11:30 <JamesMunns[m]> The answer is "it probably could", but my advice is "write it in the way that makes the most sense, THEN optimize it if you need to"

11:34 <IsaBang[m]> ha yes correct 

12:37 <firefrommoonligh> 2 follow-ups re the overflow race condition:

12:37 <firefrommoonligh> - Does the tick update ISR being the lowest priority affect it?

12:37 <firefrommoonligh> - Could it be mitigated by using a CS?

12:37 <JamesMunns[m]> (afaik): 1. yes 2. yes

12:38 <JamesMunns[m]> 1: yes, because it could interrupt non-interrupt mode

12:38 <JamesMunns[m]> 2: yes, if you use a CS on read AND write it is no longer an issue

12:41 <JamesMunns[m]> The CS also only works if you're doing something like counting overflows, and not reading from the timer itself

13:04 <andres[m]> What could be the reason when vscode buttons do not appear automatically to `#[defmt_test::tests]` as described in here: https://github.com/knurling-rs/defmt/tree/main/firmware/defmt-test.

13:04 <andres[m]> I would like to start probe-rs debugging session from there if this is possible.

13:04 <andres[m]> s/when/why/

13:44 <NickStevens[m]> <posborne> "Nick Stevens: When you get a..." <- Ugh, yeah these have been on my own list for way too long. I'll take a look.

14:47 <Farooq> What soldering iron do you suggest? I will need it to solder ICs, STM32 pin headers, sensors and so on

14:55 <ryan-summers[m]> <Farooq> "What soldering iron do you..." <- Depends entirely on what you need and what price point you have. If you are soldering anything with SMT (surface mount technology), you'll probably want a soldering station with hot air. Otherwise, Weller's are really nice irons (but cost an arm and a leg)

14:56 <Farooq> Thank you ryan

14:56 <Farooq> What do you mean costs an arm and a leg?

14:57 <Farooq> A colleage says I can find something good with 3 USD

14:58 <ryan-summers[m]> Costing an arm and a leg is an idiomatic expression for "Being very expensive"

14:58 <ryan-summers[m]> You can indeed find something good enough for quite cheap

14:59 <FreeKill[m]> Farooq: You cannot. I'm not sure what definition of "good" would stretch that far

14:59 <ryan-summers[m]> * quite cheap, although 3 USD is probably a stretch

14:59 <ryan-summers[m]> 50 USD for an iron + hot air is probably on the lower end

15:00 <Farooq> 40W Goot iron for about 20 usd

15:01 <Farooq> Farooq: my friend says the same from China costs 3 usd

15:02 <JonathanDickinso> The Pinecil is incredible

15:02 <ryan-summers[m]> If you're in china prices are likely different than what you'll find in your local market

15:03 <Farooq> ryan-summers[m]: the thing is that crappy chinese stuff are all over here

15:03 <Farooq> but no I'm not in china

15:04 <ryan-summers[m]> Shipping, import, and taxes are going to change prices, as well as local demand. Just because something only costs that much somewhere doesn't mean you can get it anywhere for that much

15:04 <therealprof[m]> Farooq: If your friend knows where to get good tools for $3, why not ask your friend what to buy?

15:05 <Farooq> therealprof[m]: I'm just trying to consult with everyone to before I make a conclusion

15:05 <Farooq> That the proverb says "Everyone know everything" in my language

15:06 <Farooq> TBH, He didn't exactly said "good", he said "not bad with this price"

15:07 <FreeKill[m]> I generally feel quite uneasy about advising people to get really cheap irons. They're high power, high temperature devices and I wouldn't trust one that was trying to be as cheap as humanly possible.

15:07 <therealprof[m]> In general you a soldering iron suitable for electronics with adjustable temperature control and different tips. You might get something usable for maybe $30, good is certainly being closer $100 than $3.

15:07 <ryan-summers[m]> Yeah I bought a cheap iron + hot air station years ago, and part of the instruction manual specifically told me not to leave the mains connected. I feel incredibly sketchy using it and the peace of mind was not worth the low cost

15:07 <therealprof[m]> * general you want a soldering

15:08 <JonathanDickinso> I prefer using my Pinecil ($25) over my Hakko ($125).

15:09 <Farooq> Well he didn't know how much i want to spend. When I said I want something reliable and durable, he said more attractive options are out there like 30-60 usd

15:11 <FreeKill[m]> JonathanDickinso: I can believe this. Cheap "classic" solder stations suck. So do a lot of expensive ones ... Metcal 😤

15:14 <FreeKill[m]> Also please be sure to think about ventilation! Saving money is not worth losing your lungs, and cheap benchtop "extractors" are essentially decorative

15:17 <Farooq> There is another alternative, if I find a new tip for the iron I've inheritated from my uncle, I could avoid buying a new soldering iron. At least for now

15:19 <therealprof[m]> The most important bits are the tip shape and quality and the temperature. If those aren't good, soldering is not

15:20 <therealprof[m]> * The most important bits are the tip shape and quality and the temperature. If those aren't good, soldering is going to be frustrating and potentially even killing your components and/or boards.

15:29 <Farooq> noted. thank you

15:30 <FreeKill[m]> Power only reaaaaaally matters for bigger pins and large copper areas. Temp is also not that important as long as it gets pretty hot.

15:30 <FreeKill[m]> Looking for high quality tips is certainly the best advice 👍

15:32 <Farooq> :D

15:35 <therealprof[m]> FreeKill[m]: > <@larunite:matrix.org> Power only reaaaaaally matters for bigger pins and large copper areas. Temp is also not that important as long as it gets pretty hot.... (full message at <https://catircservices.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/catircservices.org/PqpwdCYfktbkorJDVCrudJXm>)

15:36 <FreeKill[m]> Or you can be like my old colleague and jam the iron up to 450C every time you use it because more hot more good

15:37 <therealprof[m]> FreeKill[m]: Yeah... you need to be really experienced to get good results with that approach.

15:39 <therealprof[m]> My normal temperatures are 320C for normal stuff and 350C for big thermal mass soldering, for lead free solder of course.

15:41 <FreeKill[m]> therealprof[m]: They weren't they were just clueless. And yeah 320 is almost always fine, and keeps the tip alive

15:43 <therealprof[m]> The soldering station was "only" €40 or so (sans power supply) but the tips do cost >€20 a pop...

15:48 <firefrommoonligh> Get same Hakko chissel tips

15:48 <firefrommoonligh> For whichever iron you choose

15:48 <firefrommoonligh> And get a plate and air station

15:48 <therealprof[m]> A lot of people would consider something like a Miniware TS80 a good iron. (Haven't tested them myself though)

15:49 <firefrommoonligh> At least with my workflow, I end up with mostly-assembled boards, then hand-solder whatever wasn't available from JLC or w/e. So I heat the board up to a little below the melting point with the plate, then use the hot air on the area of interest

15:50 <firefrommoonligh> Does anyone have recommended fume extraction setups?

15:50 <firefrommoonligh> I'm using one of those desktop fans combined with holding my breath...

15:50 <firefrommoonligh> Maybe masks?

15:51 <firefrommoonligh> I should probalby get a mask. What sort is required?

15:51 <firefrommoonligh> TO block flux fumes

15:53 <vollbrecht[m]> fume extraction is not so simple, sucking in general sucks often(its a hard problem). In general blowing is much easier, so in general having open windows and using some sort of blower to defuse it is the simplest practical approach in a home lab/env.

15:56 <Farooq> which wattage should i choose?

15:58 <vollbrecht[m]> iirc the most toxic is the flux burning itself ( depending on what type of flux it is) and not so much the solder itself. General rule, the flux that works best produce the most toxic fumes :D

16:03 <Farooq> 40W, 2 USD :D

16:03 <JamesMunns[m]> These sort of irons have no temperature control, which means they basically just get "hot"

16:04 <Farooq> I have prior experience with these super cheap craps in computer accessory. You literally waste your money.

16:04 <JamesMunns[m]> where "hot" could be any value more or less than you need, potentially even more than the tip can really handle, causing it to oxidize and stop working after about a day of active use.

16:09 <FreeKill[m]> firefrommoonlight: in the home? Genuinely the best you will manage is probably lots of fans and open windows, if you don't want to shell out for a big extraction setup

16:09 <FreeKill[m]> Or the secret sauce... use leaded solder. The fumes are much less bad for you

18:51 <wassasin[m]> A tabletop suction fan with an active carbon filter is around 40 euro's, perhaps cheaper on aliexpress

18:58 <FreeKill[m]> <wassasin[m]> "A tabletop suction fan with an..." <- I have never seen those achieve much of anything. I don't know if they clog or what, but my old work had them and they were just useless. Ornamental only.

20:09 <adamgreig[m]> I've used desktop suction ones that worked pretty well and much better than some full under bench extractors I've also used

20:09 <adamgreig[m]> The hako lookalikes are good in my experience

20:09 <adamgreig[m]> s/hako/hakko/

21:31 <vollbrecht[m]> google talking about bare_metal rust on android:

21:31 <vollbrecht[m]> https://security.googleblog.com/2023/10/bare-metal-rust-in-android.html

23:04 <Cadmium[m]> > https://security.googleblog.com/2023/10/bare-metal-rust-in-android.html

23:04 <Cadmium[m]> interesting.. I wonder what they meant by bare-metal ON Android. Is it like ... high-calorie fasting? or... organic sugar added, no sweeteners? XD

23:04 <Cadmium[m]> <vollbrecht[m]> "google talking about bare_metal..." <- > <@vollbrecht:matrix.org> google talking about bare_metal rust on android: