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<gloscombe>
hey there, anyone managed the following on a visionfive2 - boot from sdcard (with ubuntu 24.10 dd'ed onto it), with an empty nvme also available (no OS, just to be used for mounted storage)
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<mfny>
so thoughts on the Jupiter ..its a bit slow.. not sure how useful it will be for me tbh but only had it for a day
<mfny>
Tenkawa: i had known it was going to be slow when i bought it but i did not prehaps realise how slow
<sixbitslacker_>
i was dismayed when i found out it was slower than my ~ two year old vf2. oh well. still gives me time to learn how to use the vector extension
<Tenkawa>
I'm using a custom ubuntu/debian build that only uses minimum needed core components to run the K1... the rest is RISC-V vendor independent and it makes quite a difference... I've noticed this in my VF2, MILK-V, and Star64 testing on the JH7110 as well
<Tenkawa>
sixbitslacker_: Where (subsystem) are you finding it to be slower?
<Tenkawa>
(I use all of mine headless so I will note that)
<sixbitslacker_>
oh, i am not familiar enough with it to answer that. the reddit comment up above is mine
<mfny>
ah im looking at this from the point of view of a desktop type usage
<mfny>
not headless
<sixbitslacker_>
yes, my use is all headless
<Tenkawa>
mfny: "no" RISC-V are ready for desltop use yet
<Tenkawa>
er desktop
<xypron>
Tenkawa: Unmatched + GPU works fine for desktop.
<Tenkawa>
They are probably 1.5 yr-2 yr realisticly away
<Tenkawa>
xypron: at an extremey high cost for value
<xypron>
Sure
<Tenkawa>
which != ready
<xypron>
Everything else needs a vendor kernel and vendor mesa for the Imagination GPU. The rest you can take from a distro.
<Tenkawa>
This is one reason I'm glad I am retired lol
<Tenkawa>
I don't have to fix it anymore
<Tenkawa>
lol
<Tenkawa>
Only on my schedule
<Tenkawa>
I am actually very happy with the BPI-F3 now that we've got it working on NVMe boot (with u-boot on the emmc) only...
<Tenkawa>
Its a very useful machine...
<Tenkawa>
This, and "now" the Milk-V Mars CM can work on the USB
<Tenkawa>
so its been a good week
<xypron>
Milk-V Mars CM runs fine from NVMe.
<Tenkawa>
xypron: usb didn't
<sixbitslacker_>
i boot off emmc as well, with / on nvme (pi3a)
<Tenkawa>
usb requires a patch
<Tenkawa>
there is "no" usb functionality on the Mars CM unless you patch it
<Tenkawa>
I just applied it to mine this week.
<Tenkawa>
I am talking bout mainline btw.. not vendor
<Tenkawa>
just in case you weren't aware
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<mfny>
raxda has a mitx Arm board, maybe i should buy that instead if i want not x86 but itx but with usable desktop performance ?
<Tenkawa>
mfny: Radxa's a coin toss..
<Tenkawa>
I have several of there's
<Tenkawa>
I like the Radxa CM personally
<Tenkawa>
but its not for everyone
<Tenkawa>
xypron: now this is fun....
<Tenkawa>
Linux mars 6.11.5 #11 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Thu Oct 31 21:24:07 UTC 2024 riscv64 riscv64 riscv64 GNU/Linux
<Tenkawa>
thats my CM NVMe one
<gloscombe>
so are you able to use OpenSBI and u-boot from mainline on vf2? would you then use ubuntu 24.10 dd'ed into an sd card using SPI flash boot?
<drmpeg>
I just got my BPI-F3 running. It does seem pretty slow, at least from SD card.
<Tenkawa>
gloscombe: my setup was done a long time back (I was helping test) but I do believe its all in upstream now
<drmpeg>
gloscombe: I just boot the Ubuntu u-boot from SD card.
<Tenkawa>
drmpeg: its much slower on microsd however its not going to fly on either... its not a "tuned/optimized" unit yet. this is realisticly still a dev unit
<mps>
gloscombe: u-boot for VF2 mainline can be flashed to MTD and you can boot from any device (except USB iirc)
<xypron>
gloscombe: If you want to install to NVMe, there is also an installer image for Ubuntu. But you need to set $fdtfile to point to a dtb that exists on the ESP. Mars or VF2 dtb should be fine if you don't care for USB.
<mps>
gloscombe: default boot order is sdcard, emmc, nvme I think
<drmpeg>
xypron: Is there going to be an Ubuntu release for BPI-F3?
<Tenkawa>
Yeah I can recommend the Ubuntu image.. its nice
<Tenkawa>
drmpeg: I'm already running it
<Tenkawa>
root@bpibox:~# cat /etc/os-release
<Tenkawa>
PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 24.04.1 LTS"
<drmpeg>
I meant an official release.
<xypron>
drmpeg: Official images require a kernel that we can maintain.
<drmpeg>
Gotcha.
<drmpeg>
Isn't that the same problem for HiFive p550 though?
<Tenkawa>
drmpeg: considering what xypron said... noone as far as I can tell from Bainbu will even give any indication of trying to work with mainline devs
<Tenkawa>
The documentation for the Spacemit is next to impossible to access too..
<drmpeg>
Well, dlan is trying.
<Tenkawa>
drmpeg; in how many languages?
<Tenkawa>
It can't be restricted to just Eastern Asian ones (which it currently is)
<drmpeg>
for the Linux kernel.
<drmpeg>
Bianbu, I can do without.
<Tenkawa>
Well. thats a lot for "one"
<Tenkawa>
person to rewrite
<Tenkawa>
(or group)
<Tenkawa>
I highly doubt their api's or dtbs are going to match up
<Tenkawa>
Similar to other RV and ARM vendors we've had
<drmpeg>
Yeah, I don't have high hopes.
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<drmpeg>
It's too bad the p550 doesn't have vector. It's quite fast.
<Tenkawa>
Aww didn't realize it was missing V
<Tenkawa>
(hadn't paid close attention but yeah thats unfortunate)
<drmpeg>
For a huge Ubuntu Linux build, here's my results:
<drmpeg>
p550 = 4:51:44
<drmpeg>
VF2 = 7:33:41
<drmpeg>
And that with SD card on the p550 and NVME on the VF2
<Tenkawa>
What kind of hdparm numbers you get on -t you get with that vf2?
<drmpeg>
I don't have it online right now.
<drmpeg>
I have too many RISC-V boards right now. :)
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<Tenkawa>
Checking mine
<Tenkawa>
oops.. Got my FreeBSD test drive in it
<Tenkawa>
that won't worl
<Tenkawa>
er work
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<drmpeg>
But yeah, I have to give the BPI-F3 a chance. I just got it running Friday.
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<mfny>
Tenkawa: why is Radxa a coin toss ? the other itx option for Arm is Firefly who ive never heard of and does not seem to seed its products to youtubers or anything for review
<mfny>
the firefly is also *much* more espensive then the Radxa
<mfny>
oh and its an older Rockchip chip to
<mps>
I still use about 8-9 years old arm64 rk3399 chromebook when I'm on road or going somewhere, not fast as apple silicon but usable
<Tenkawa>
mps: I liked my pbp.... it just went dead one day... was a sad day...
<Tenkawa>
It was a great machine to keep on my bike
<Tenkawa>
I won't ride on these bumpy roads/trails I do around here with this MBP lol
<mps>
:)
<mfny>
rideing on trails with an expensive MBP seems like a recipe for a bad time yes
<mps>
I told earlier, I washed with shower my first m1 MBP
<Tenkawa>
I'm still looking for a non-x86 laptop somewhere in the middle to keep on my bike...
<Tenkawa>
(Its my transportation since I can't drive)
<Tenkawa>
Possibly even a lower MBA....
<mfny>
Tenkawa: someone on the Arm discord recommended me an arm laptop a while back, they were all over ebay new at good prices it was a lenvo i think
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<mfny>
lenovo rather
<mps>
Tenkawa: hm, Samsung one plus (rk3399) is only 900 grams weight and probably can be bought used one somewhere
<mps>
chromebook ^
<Tenkawa>
Ouch.. I can get a MBA M1 around here for less
<mfny>
the lenovo im taking about was about £500
<mfny>
ill see if i can find out what it was
* mps
will never again buy apple (has m1 and m1oro MBPs)
<Tenkawa>
All I usually get is Apple
<Tenkawa>
I bought HP before and those were terrible
<mps>
would like good riscv notebook but there is no good on market yet, so I think about loongson
<Tenkawa>
waiting to see who tries to compete with next Roma
<mps>
though Musebook look ok
<sixbitslacker_>
same slow spacemit processor
<mfny>
Tenkawa,: its the Lenovo x13s, the ARM notebook im thinking of, someone got ubuntu working on it with some caveats
<Tenkawa>
yeah I've heard of it
<mfny>
Tenkawa: so why did you say Radxa was a coin toss as that Rock 5 ITX looks tempting ..
<Tenkawa>
mfny: You don't know their track history with reliability/support/product knowledge... I do.
<Tenkawa>
mps: well this isn't too bad for full compiling
<Tenkawa>
temp1: +62.0 C
<Tenkawa>
temp1: +63.0 C
<Tenkawa>
thats the 2 cpu sensors
<mps>
Tenkawa: what board?
<Tenkawa>
the bpi-f3
<mfny>
Tenkawa: are they known to give poor support then ?
<mps>
Tenkawa: my have only 2GB ram so even didn't tried to compile anything big
<mfny>
2gb ram not a whole lot
<Tenkawa>
mfny: In my opinion yes they have support issues... but that is "my" opinion.. you should read their forums and evaluate for youtself
<Tenkawa>
er yourself
<mps>
mfny: works fine as wifi access point, router and small server
<kepstin>
i'm kinda wondering what the reason for the spacemit k1/m1 being so slow is. like, for some things my old atom d525 can outperform the m1 (the d525 is an interesting comparison, since it's the same clock speed and is also a dual-issue in-order core).
<Tenkawa>
mps: yeah... but it does give a god sign that the cpu isn't trying to meltdown
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<kepstin>
like, is it just bottlenecked on the memory interface or something? :/
<Tenkawa>
kepstin: part of it looks like the die itself.. the cores don't appear to be split
<Tenkawa>
theres a single cache/etc
<kepstin>
two groups of 4 cores, each group shares a 512k l2 cache.
<kepstin>
so yeah, not a great amount of cache per core
<mps>
Tenkawa: hm, forgot does it have thermal driver
<Tenkawa>
yeah but if you look at the assembly... there's something not quite right there
<Tenkawa>
it seems that calls are not threading into individual calls properly
<mfny>
oh speaking of thermals i tried to use sensors on the Jupiter and got command not found, tried to install and got package not found
<Tenkawa>
mps: yeah
<mps>
hm, CONFIG_CPU_THERMAL=y is enabled for alpine linux-spacemit
<Tenkawa>
mps: just a sec
<Tenkawa>
getting name
<mps>
oh CONFIG_K1X_THERMAL=y
<Tenkawa>
yeah thats it
<mps>
my works without any cooler
<Tenkawa>
yeah it doesn't need it
<Tenkawa>
I have a metal heatsink that came with it
<mps>
I didn't even put these heatsinks :)
<drmpeg>
I put a fan on mine.
<Tenkawa>
I'm building up my kernel and loading up my ccache lol
<Tenkawa>
makes tuning different tests easy
<drmpeg>
80° C seemed a little too much for me.
<Tenkawa>
80 yeah thats a bit high
<drmpeg>
60° C with the little fan.
<kepstin>
i threw a passive heatsink from an old video card on my m1, and have a fan in the case to circulate air. i don't think i've seen it go over 50°C or so with compilation workloads like that, admittedly in fairly cool ambient.
<mps>
commercial grade chips should go over 65°
<mps>
should not*
<Tenkawa>
my HP goes 90+ even with its 2 jet turbines lol
<Tenkawa>
sounds like its trying to take off
<mps>
my old apple x86_64 MPB usually go over 75 and it have fan
<Tenkawa>
haahaa yeah we got one MBP x86 still around here
<kepstin>
yeah, x86 is kind of a mess. throw lots of power in the chip, use specialty packaging to handle the resulting temperatures, and add active monitoring to throttle things before they get dangerously hot :(
<mps>
iirc industrial grade chips can go to 85 and military over 100
<kepstin>
those ratings are about environmental temperatures tho, which are a different thing from die temperatures monitored on an internal sensor.
<mps>
right
<Tenkawa>
mps: how much power you running your k1 with?
<Tenkawa>
v/A
<Tenkawa>
Trying to figure out how much I'm over committing to it..
<Tenkawa>
lol
<mps>
didn't do any measure
<Tenkawa>
you using a brick or a bench supply?
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<Tenkawa>
I just am mostly looking or minimums
<Tenkawa>
er for
<mps>
now it is on usb-c power supply from old acer R13 chromebook
<Tenkawa>
Oh ok.. you are doing that too
<Tenkawa>
yeah I had to pull a power supply too
<Tenkawa>
even a USB-C 5A I think wouldn't drive it
<mps>
tried one power supply from old wifi router but it was unstable, kernel crash sometimes
<Tenkawa>
Yeah same
<Tenkawa>
Ok... good to hear not just me
<mps>
Tenkawa: GN, going to sleep
<mps>
sorry, GN all
<Tenkawa>
cheers '
<kepstin>
there's some interesting usb-c PD monitoring gadgets available, be interesting to try one of those to see the V and A that it's negotiating.
<Tenkawa>
oh I have a monitor
<Tenkawa>
I see what its trying
<Tenkawa>
I was just curious if I was the only one seeing this behaviour
<kepstin>
what voltage do they end up using?
<Tenkawa>
(my main power supply is a bench supply with monitors)
<Tenkawa>
I use a 12V PD barrel
<Tenkawa>
and it forces 12V
<Tenkawa>
(its barrel to USB-C so I have to convert)
<kepstin>
ah. yeah, i was wondering it it might only work on 12V, which could explain why some USB-C power supplies might not work even if they could provide sufficient W. (iirc 12V is optional in at least some USB-C PD spec versions?)
<Tenkawa>
after this kernel finidshes compiling going to try an experiment
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<Tenkawa>
Ok... it booted with the small change.. now lets see if it stays stable
<Tenkawa>
Nope.. crashed
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