<discocaml>
<bluddy5> I don't know if it still works. I also wouldn't try to replace python scripting with ocaml. It's just not optimized for this usecase, and you'll bump into all sorts of issues with no way out. In the context of a company that directs all their resources towards solving these problems, it may seem easy.
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<mi6x3m>
hey ocaml, can I compiler an .a library with ocamlmklib without the native compiler?
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<discocaml>
<Ada> i’ve written ocaml scripts sometimes to run in top level just to try stuff out or process data
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<discocaml>
<Kali> i use ocaml as a scripting language occasionally
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<discocaml>
<deepspacejohn> I don't use it as a general purpose scripting language but within a dune project it's very simple to define an ocaml executable and use it as a "script" to do stuff
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<discocaml>
<regularspatula> "you'll bump into all sorts of issues with no way out" <- could you elaborate on that?
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<discocaml>
<bluddy5> Well, it's a general statement, but IMO trying an barely used use-case in a language with a small ecosystem is a recipe for trouble. But it looks like other people are doing it, so maybe it's fine.
<discocaml>
<regularspatula> I guess the definition of scripting is a little hazy anyway
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<darchitect>
hey guys, I am struggling to understand something to do with includes in the module system of Ocaml (maybe it's a pretty beginner question)
<darchitect>
I have got the following program ->
<darchitect>
module type Sig1 = sig
<darchitect>
type t
<darchitect>
val init : t
<darchitect>
val modify : t -> t
<darchitect>
end
<darchitect>
module MySig1Impl : Sig1 = struct
<darchitect>
type t = int
<darchitect>
let init = 128
<darchitect>
let modify x = x + 1
<darchitect>
end
<darchitect>
module MySig1 : Sig1 = MySig1Impl
<darchitect>
(* --- *)
<darchitect>
module type Sig2 = sig
<darchitect>
include Sig1
<darchitect>
val to_string : t -> string
<discocaml>
<leostera> any chance you acn just link a gist?
<darchitect>
end
<darchitect>
module MySig2Impl : Sig2 = struct
<darchitect>
include MySig1Impl
<darchitect>
let to_string = Int.to_string
<darchitect>
end
<darchitect>
module MySig2 : Sig2 = MySig2Impl
<darchitect>
and I am getting this from merlin in MySig2Impl to_string -
<darchitect>
Values do not match:
<darchitect>
val to_string : int -> string
<darchitect>
is not included in
<darchitect>
val to_string : t -> string
<darchitect>
The type int -> string is not compatible with the type t -> string
<darchitect>
Type int is not compatible with type t
<darchitect>
any ideas why this is so ? my Sig2 is including all definitions in Sig1 then my implementation MySig1Impl implements everything AND it makes the type concrete t turns to an int. Then I include from MySig2Impl everything from MySig1Impl, this should also make t to int in MySig2Impl right ? but for some reason it doesn't :/
<darchitect>
at least based off of my understanding of the type checking
<octachron>
With the constraint `MySig1Impl : Sig1` you are making your implementation fits `Sig1` exactly by erasing all details from the implementation.
<discocaml>
<._null._> Including and especially erasing `type t = int`
<octachron>
In other words, you have asked the module system to only remember that `MySig1Impl` defines a type `t` and forget that this type `t` was an int.
<darchitect>
so if I wanted to include the implementation of MySig1Impl into MySig2Impl, how would I do it so that it fits both Sig1 and Sig2 ?
<octachron>
aka signature constraints actively erase information, and should not used to check that an implementation is a subtype of the signature.
<octachron>
Don't use signature constraints if your aim is not to hide definitively implementation details.
<darchitect>
hmm
<discocaml>
<leostera> you can let t be concrete with an annotation: `Sig2 with type t = int`
<darchitect>
I think I got something wrong then - I thought you could use MySig1Impl to implement Sig1 and then you have another Sig2 which is very close to Sig1 apart from a couple of functions -> then you include Sig1 into your Sig2 signature
<darchitect>
but then I should be able to include some implementation of Sig1 into my Sig2 implementation right
<octachron>
Your MySig1Impl implements `Sig1`, with or without the signature constraint.
<darchitect>
you're right this resolves the merlin error
<discocaml>
<._null._> You can use `MySig1Impl` to implement `Sig1`, but you shouldn't write ` : Sig1` (as in, hide type information) if you intend to extend it
<darchitect>
but then isn't this hiding the fact that it implements Sig1 from the reader
<octachron>
Not really, OCaml module system uses structural subtyping, so any module fullfills an infinite number of signatures
<discocaml>
<._null._> (What signatures does the empty module fulfill besides the empty one ?)
<darchitect>
do you recommend some reading not on the syntax or the rules, but more on examples of when to use what (as in best practices) ?
<darchitect>
when to hide and when not to
<darchitect>
when to constraint *
<discocaml>
<._null._> You can constrain only at the point of use (functor applications mainly)
<octachron>
Hm, right this is the other direction of the subtyping relationship. So more an exponentially increasing (with the size of the module) number of signatures.
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<discocaml>
<._null._> It will even happen without adding the type ascription
<octachron>
Or when you are writing an interface file for a library module.
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<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> @octachron
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Thanks for your advice the other day
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> I am using the Futhark language for a numerical computing project and I want to call it from OCaml. I am definitely getting a use-after-free segmentation fault. I shared with the Futhark maintainer the code and he said
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> > It is very strange. I can think of one reason it could happen: just before calling the Futhark entry point, after extracting the pointers from the OCaml-level array objects, the GC runs. At this point, the OCaml arrays are dead, and are garbage collected, and so the C pointers are also freed.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> > But this would imply that using finalizers to wrap C objects in OCaml is very fragile, and must be done very carefully.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Do you have anything to add here about the exact order of events that stuff happens in when you use finalizers to wrap C objects? Because clearly we are having some misunderstanding about what is the correct order of operations here, what should be done first.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> The Futhark maintainer is I think an expert in SML but not in OCaml, so he has some knowledge that crosses over but not a full understanding of how OCaml works.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> @octachron
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Thanks for your advice the other day
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> I am using the Futhark language for a numerical computing project and I want to call it from OCaml. (The Futhark is transcompiled to C so it is just standard OCaml to C interfacing.) I am definitely getting a use-after-free segmentation fault. I shared with the Futhark maintainer the code and he said
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> > It is very strange. I can think of one reason it could happen: just before calling the Futhark entry point, after extracting the pointers from the OCaml-level array objects, the GC runs. At this point, the OCaml arrays are dead, and are garbage collected, and so the C pointers are also freed.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> > But this would imply that using finalizers to wrap C objects in OCaml is very fragile, and must be done very carefully.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Do you have anything to add here about the exact order of events that stuff happens in when you use finalizers to wrap C objects? Because clearly we are having some misunderstanding about what is the correct order of operations here, what should be done first.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> He said
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> > In particular, the finalizer should be attached to the C pointer.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> > And... maybe you should use a weak reference?
<discocaml>
<octachron> From your description, you have a memory ownership issue.
<discocaml>
<octachron> Why are the OCaml finalizers freeing C-owned memory?
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Unfortunately I don't think I'm not the one to ask here, I was ideally hoping to just be a user of a tool which allows me to not have to think about this.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk>
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> zshipko wrote a tool https://github.com/zshipko/futhark-bindgen/tree/main which automatically generates \*.ml files with the external calls and *.mli files to provide the interface, so in an ideal world I personally would not have to understand what the right way to allocate and deallocate memory is here.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Is there a right way / wrong way to register C objects with the finalizer and let the garbage collector deal with the problem of when is the last time an OCaml function uses the C object?
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> He is in this server (@\zshipko) so we could just ping him for his answer. I posted an issue on the github tracker.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Unfortunately I don't think I'm the one to ask here, I was ideally hoping to just be a user of a tool which allows me to not have to think about this.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk>
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> zshipko wrote a tool https://github.com/zshipko/futhark-bindgen/tree/main which automatically generates \*.ml files with the external calls and *.mli files to provide the interface, so in an ideal world I personally would not have to understand what the right way to allocate and deallocate memory is here.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Is there a right way / wrong way to register C objects with the finalizer and let the garbage collector deal with the problem of when is the last time an OCaml function uses the C object?
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> He is in this server (@\zshipko) so we could just ping him for his answer. I posted an issue on the github tracker.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Unfortunately I don't think I'm the one to ask here, I was ideally hoping to just be a user of a tool which allows me to not have to think about this.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk>
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> zshipko wrote a tool https://github.com/zshipko/futhark-bindgen/tree/main which automatically generates \*.ml files with the external calls and *.mli files to provide the interface, so in an ideal world I personally would not have to understand what the right way to allocate and deallocate memory is here.
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> Is there a right way / wrong way to register C objects with the finalizer and let the garbage collector deal with the problem of when is the last time an OCaml function uses the C object?
<discocaml>
<diligentclerk> He is in this server (@\zshipko) so we could just ping him for his answer. I posted an issue on the github tracker with a somewhat minimized version of the segfaulting code.
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