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SiFuh_ changed the topic of #crux-musl to: CRUX 3.7 MUSL | Homepage: https://crux.nu/ | Ports: https://crux.nu/portdb/ https://crux.ninja/portdb/ | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/crux-musl
SiFuh_ changed the topic of #crux-musl to: CRUX 3.7 MUSL | Homepage: https://crux.nu/ | Ports: https://crux.nu/portdb/ https://crux.ninja/portdb/ | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/crux-musl/
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<SiFuh_> farkuhar: I think it is /m NickServe op #crux-musl farkuhar
<SiFuh_> Nevermind it is /m ChanServ op #crux-musl farkuhar
<SiFuh_> You also have the power to add operators and delete them too.
<farkuhar> dlcusa must have been away when this channel was created, and hasn't yet returned to the computer room. Otherwise he would have joined by now.
<SiFuh_> Full chan access
<SiFuh_> He's sleeping probably
<SiFuh_> Don't worry farkuhar this channel will be populated. emmett1 said he will join it too when he has time.
<SiFuh_> He said he has no time for socializing but a dedicated channel to MUSL he is very interested in
<SiFuh_> emmet1: Now i think i would join it
<SiFuh_> me: Cool. I already emailed farkuhar to let him know the channel exists and he is the Operator.
<SiFuh_> me: On Social we talk a lot of shit and crap and garbage. Then suddenly we are flooded with biblical sized texts from farkuhar about MUSL.
<SiFuh_> emmett1: Hahaa..dont have time for crap and shit, farkuhar said
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: Also what is this road trip? I said off-road and camping if I remember correctly.
<SiFuh_> If you want a road trip then I should ask you. Can you ride a motorbike? I have a road trip in the works very soon for riding all of Isan (Esaan) of Thailand.
<SiFuh_> Plan is to cover all 20 provinces.
<SiFuh_> There is also a plan to go to an all male facility in Bali for focusing on being a man with Gym and all sorts of activities in the mountains. You can join that too if you want.
<SiFuh_> There is a rule though. No alcohol, or drugs or negativity on that particular trip
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<SiFuh_> Welcome emmett
<emmett> Hey guys
<SiFuh_> emmett: Did you manage to get the latest rust to compile and firefox?
<SiFuh_> farkuhar has been complaining about it for awhile. I am not ready to start tinkering myself. Waiting for 3.8.
<emmett> on my personal distro, rust-1.86.0 and firefox-137.0.1
<emmett> SiFuh_: also latest librewolf
<SiFuh_> I think 1.86 is what farkuhar was trying to do.
<emmett> also btw my personal distro is using LLVM/Clang btw, no gcc/binutils
<SiFuh_> No gcc at all?
<SiFuh_> Nice
<emmett> yeah, no gcc at all
<emmett> just recently migrate from gcc to fully clang
<SiFuh_> emmett: By the way, what reason for no gcc?
<emmett> and fixed most packages to compile with clang
<emmett> trying something new? i got bored with normal musl distro
<SiFuh_> Understood
<SiFuh_> You have patches available that farkuhar can look at?
<emmett> check here
<SiFuh_> emmett: CRUX 3.8 will be released soon, so even though we have a working CRUX-MUSL for 3.8RC we want to make it primp and prime
<SiFuh_> emmett: ukky built the latest CRUX-MUSL 3.8 RC
<emmett> yeah i saw already many people work on CRUX-MUSL so thats why i'm slow down with CRUX-MUSL
<emmett> and i'm planning to make CRUX-MUSL-CLANG
<emmett> but pkgutils is written using gcc library
<emmett> it failed to compiled for no-gcc system
<SiFuh_> Actually ukky, farkuhar are the heaviest MUSL works.
<SiFuh_> Everyone else, including me, are just lazy assholes that fuck around with it but that is all.
<SiFuh_> works/workers*
<emmett> i saw farkuhar's CRUX-MUSL repo on crux's git, but not sure where is ukky's
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<SiFuh_> Ahh his is private. He made the ISO to for 3.8. See if I can get you a link for whatever he sent
<dlcusa> May this beginning well support a worthy platform!
<emmett> yeah i'm also lazy ass, work a bit on my personal distros when i have free time
<SiFuh_> emmett: You know much credit was on your behalf right?
<SiFuh_> I made sure you were well known
<emmett> SiFuh_: really? i don't know
<SiFuh_> Well you and I worked on it. So naturally I must let them all know you had a big hand in it. A little unconventional but without you, I think it would never have happened.
<emmett> owh okay, its okay i do not care much about credit. nobody pay for credit..huhu
<SiFuh_> emmett: I don't actually care for credit at all. I hate credit. But opensource always likes to give credit.
<SiFuh_> emmett: httpup copy https://cruxy.ca/crux/ports/muslcrux38 /tmp/tmp_muslcrux38
<emmett> yeah. just make CRUX-MUSL happen
<SiFuh_> Too many users were asking about in #crux. So you and I did it.
<emmett> also improvement in CRUX system.
<SiFuh_> Now we have others. Like ukky that did the 3.8 ISO so the ball is rolling.
<emmett> great. if someone with good c++ can make pkgutils compileable in LLVM/Clang on system, i could start CRUX-MUSL-CLANG project..hehe
<emmett> *only system
<SiFuh_> I ain't no c++ guy.
<emmett> my c++ very rusty. maybe farkuhar good in c++
<SiFuh_> I do Shell and Ansi C. I think everything else can go take a hike
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: By the way, welcome dlcusa
<dlcusa> SiFuh, thank you. I probably won't be able to help much, but I won't add much noise here.
<SiFuh_> I think that CRUX-MUSL should remove all the bloat from the core and be up to the user if they want to install crap like sudo or pam.
<SiFuh_> MUSL itself is a slimmed down version, so why not slim the entire CRUX core down? The way it should be?
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: farkuhar was asking about you.
<SiFuh_> [18 57 05] [farkuhar> dlcusa must have been away when this channel was created, and hasn't yet returned to the computer room. Otherwise he would have joined by now.
<dlcusa> If we're voting, I agree Per's vision should be a given.
<emmett> SiFuh_: yeah i also do Shell mostly.
<SiFuh_> emmett: I have perused your code for the pkgutils in shell and find it very pleasing.
<dlcusa> SiFuh, yeah, I just read that--I was sleeping.
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: I think only jue jaeger and I have actually conversed with per
<SiFuh_> Everyone else is just new... newbies...
<SiFuh_> I know jaeger for a fact did. Not entirely sure about jue.
<dlcusa> I'm referencing what he turned over, not what he's been doing.
<SiFuh_> jaeger was a late commer from university in Oklamhoma if I remember correctly. He was very keen and he was very hard working. That is why I still to this day have very deep respect for him.
<SiFuh_> I personally believe CRUX would never exist if it wasn't for jaegers hand in it.
<SiFuh_> It would have died out by around 2005 maybe?
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: My issue that I haven't tested yet. Will X-Plane 11 and 12 run under a MUSL environment. If it can, then I am all in.
<dlcusa> on the phone...
<SiFuh_> Better to be on the floor (Like me) or on a chair like royalty
<farkuhar> Welcome emmett! Re: pkgutils, I'd be happy to tinker around and try to replace anything specific to gcc, but first I'd like to fix the llvm, clang, and rust on my crux-musl machines. Those fixes should be easier now that I know the url of your updated crux-musl repo.
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: What about dlcusa?
<dlcusa> So is the consensus to make gcc non-core?
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: No, emmett is testing it.
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: I personally think gcc should be the only compiler in core, but I wait to be corrected
<dlcusa> So gcc and llvm in core?
<SiFuh_> I don't understand why llvm even exists to be honest
<emmett> farkuhar: my crux-musl repo not really up-to-dated, but just update the version of some outdated packages it should works
<emmett> farkuhar: look at my project here for llvm, clang, rust and firefox https://codeberg.org/emmett1/alicelinux
<emmett> on 'gcc' branch, just recently fully migrate to LLVM/Clang system on main branch
<dlcusa> My contributions beyond throwing out my opinions will likely be testing and doc.
<emmett> btw this AliceLinux project of mine is musl+busybox+libressl btw. You can omit libressl patches and fixes
<farkuhar> I think frinnst made a good suggestion to move libbsd and libmd back under a non-standard prefix, as they were in CRUX 3.7. There's too much eager linking of those libraries when installed in standard locations.
<SiFuh_> emmett: I wrote the original libressl for CRUX but it never took off. I preferred it over OpenSSL
<emmett> SiFuh_: imo, libressl is not compatible with most software these days. a lot of patches and fixes needed to be able to compile against libressl
<emmett> I use it on my AliceLinux project because AliceLinux only contains very small pool of packages, no Xorg, only Wayland
<farkuhar> dlcusa: Sharing your opinions is a valuable contribution. We could use a voice of conscience keeping us on the right course.
<dlcusa> Well, there should be a shared group conscience.
<farkuhar> Anyway, AFK for a few hours. I've placed the clang and pkgutils issues on my TODO list for later.
<dlcusa> Not necessarily a manifesto, but a statement of shared vision that can be amended as needed.
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: I agree with dlcusa as long it is boung by per's original design.
<SiFuh_> bound*
<dlcusa> SiFuh, do you remember any documentation of that original design?
<SiFuh_> Remember, of course. Have? No
<dlcusa> It would be a nice jumping off point. Maybe I can do some digging...
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: Here is an example. Why delete documentation to minimise disk space when later on beerman introduces dumb_runtime_dir?
<emmett> farkuhar: i will try to update my CRUX-MUSL repo, maybe you can look at my repo for your clang/llvm/rust issue
<dlcusa> We do need to accept a means of determining what the distro is and is not.
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: per wanted a stripped and slimmed disk saving distro without junk we don't need.
<dlcusa> I concur.
<SiFuh_> dlcusa: His goal was pure core as small of a footprint as possible.
<dlcusa> I concur.
<emmett> btw why CRUX still keeping libtool archive (*.la)?
<SiFuh_> Then the new gen comes in and adds shit. Sometimes it is needed but SUDO for example was never needed. You already had SU.
<SiFuh_> emmett: It doesn't
<emmett> libtool archive can completely removed in each packages to avoid package breaking caused by these libtool when doing upgrades
<SiFuh_> Badly written ports stil have *.la with one known exception. VLC
<SiFuh_> emmett: *.la is needed for some functionality in VLC. But these days we all moved to MPV
<emmett> only certain softwares required it, eg: imagemagick
<emmett> just add something like PKGMK_KEEP_LIBTOOL function in pkgutils
<dlcusa> AFK probably for the rest of the day...
<SiFuh_> I don't know about imagemagick to be honest
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: Your channel has a breath of life
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: You can erase me from opertaor status if you desire. I won't care. Just it was a channel that needed to exist and helping you set it up was fine.
<emmett> i dont use imagemagick too, but i've been maintaining package ports for Venom Linux since around 2015. I start distro with libtool (*.la) free with zero libtool issue, but CRUX till this day still keep it.
<SiFuh_> You will need to update the topic when 3.8 is released
<SiFuh_> emmett: If it is uneeded then sure, we strip it out. That is my way.
<emmett> we strip it out? how?
<emmett> beerman would love to?
<SiFuh_> Anything that is not considered core. We wipe it out
<SiFuh_> This is MUSL not GLIBC dude
<SiFuh_> We stand by Per's ways and not the new Gen shit faggots
<emmett> but still using CRUX repos right?
<SiFuh_> We have our ways
<emmett> yeah, we should just kick beerman out..haha
<emmett> that dumbass
<SiFuh_> Actually emmett I think farkuhar and ukky were even discussing to make a strickly crux-musl core/opt
<SiFuh_> We run in parallel to CRUX but we strip out the real bullshit
<emmett> yeah, thats great, no bullshit
<SiFuh_> And strictly follow Per's ways. If not, I will leave too
<emmett> i could help with packages fixing, like farkuhar having right now with llvm/clang etc
<SiFuh_> emmett: all good, we can all build it together soon
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: I wonder how zorz is going to take it when he realises you are no longer in CRUX-Social. Maybe have a complex or something?
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: I PM'd you but it says you are not online
<farkuhar> emmett: Whatever problem I was having with clang 19.1.7 and rust 1.86, it doesn't seem to be affecting the compilation of C++ projects. In fact I just tried `CXX=clang++ make all` in the pkgutils source tree, and got a successful build. Can you share the errors you were hitting with pkgutils and clang?
<SiFuh_> 3
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: I was asking about whether or not you would consider the Bali trip maybe emmett could slice a chunk out of his life and join us.
<farkuhar> What's interesting is that cruxbot in the #crux-arm channel has recently announced a new version of pkgutils, but there doesn't appear to be a corresponding tag (5.40.11) in the official repo. Even beerman's forked repo only has tags up to 5.40.10.
<SiFuh_> Maybe it isn't give to us plebs?
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: https://balitimechamber.com/
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: Lot of tech guys go here also. Just to be who they should be.
<farkuhar> cruxbot actually made multiple announcements of pkgutils-5.40.11, two for raspberrypi3-arm64 and one for odroidxu4-arm. If it makes me a pleb not to own any of that hardware, fine, but it would be nice to know whose git repo is getting those tags, so we can follow the development.
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: Told you all 2 years ago. Crux is becoming royalty
<SiFuh_> farkuhar: You interested?
<farkuhar> Obviously `CXX=clang++` was not enough to reproduce emmett's build environment, because I still had gcc installed. If I want to reproduce the errors that arise on a llvm/clang-only system, I have to remove gcc first.
<farkuhar> As frinnst pointed out in #crux, there's room for improvement in the revdep algorithm. A number of packages that broke after the libxml2 update were not detected by revdep, including llvm and clang.
<farkuhar> Heh, removing gcc would entail a rebuild of llvm and clang. Since I needed to do those rebuilds anyway, I might as well get rid of gcc first, and then the environment would be closer to what emmett is using.
<emmett> farkuhar: https://0x0.st/8fuj..log
<emmett> btw on my clang only system g++ is symliked to clang++
<emmett> farkuhar: looks like it use something like gnu_cxx library which is from gcc?
<emmett> pkginfo -o stdio_filebuf.h
<emmett> gcc usr/include/c++/14.2.0/ext/stdio_filebuf.h
<farkuhar> emmett: Yeah, the line "using __gnu_cxx::stdio_filebuf;" was what struck me right away, upon skimming the pkgutil.cc source code.
<farkuhar> I finally got a chance to try emmett's port of llvm. I tried all the possible combinations of {leaving,removing} the existing {clang,lld} but kept running into errors like this: https://dpaste.com/HN3SERTB5
<farkuhar> What's weird is if I trace the error message to llvm/cmake/modules/HandleLLVMOptions.cmake, I see that the attempt to compile the test program "int main() { return 0; }" is what triggers the fatal error. But when I pass that same program to `clang++ -fuse-ld=lld` on the command line, it succeeds!
<farkuhar> Any successful run of the existing clang++ is surprising, because I haven't yet rebuilt llvm or clang since the libxml2 update (which was alleged to cause so much breakage in the toolchain).
<farkuhar> Heh, I just needed to edit LLVM_TARGETS_TO_BUILD (leaving 'host' and deleting 'AMDGPU'). That was the only blocker at the configuration stage. Now let's wait a few hours and see if the build succeeds.