Armbian-Discord has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Armbian-Discord has joined #armbian-broadcom
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> any idea why latest images for rpi don't work on rpi3 anymore? but works on rpi4 ...
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> I could test one on a 3a+ to see why... will that be sufficient?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> or does it need to be a 3b?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> 3a+ should also work (but i would assume it also doesn't)
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> dunno what was changed
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> 22.05.4 works, latest doesn't
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Is it the prebuilt image or do you need me to run a compile?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> latest prebuilt
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> is also good for testing
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Ok.. let me try to track down my 3a+
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> I know where it "should" be
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> So 22.11 is the non-functional one right? (Just like to be thorough)
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Found all of my equip getting ready to stage and test
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> I'm not a 100% sure, but it looks like it is formatted to GPT, which the Pi3 does not support.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> If you just wanted to make it EFI compatible, it doesn't need to be GPT. MBR is fine on Pi's.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> yeah I'm getting nothing on it.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> not even flash codes
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> it has no idea I put media in
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Let me pull one from the archives and see how its structured
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Wut.
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Hot garbage
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> What does it mean to be "EFI compatible”? Because ESP is a part of that, and that's a GPT thing.
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Does the pi firmware actually do UEFI?
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> A Google search is telling me "not without help"
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> In which case, either do hybrid MBR (bad) or just MBR (less bad)
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Exactly. Pi3 does not support ESP.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Basically just don't use gpt on pis. In order to do EFI on a pi you need to use uboot anyway.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but is this a problem? are images gpt now ... can't find change
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> That FAT part is ESP. So looks like it's GPT? Unless for some reason it was just given a ESP label for no reason.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> we were changing labels at some point ... hmm
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> I had to run... priting disaster at house preparing for afternoon event
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Yeah not a one size fits all when dealing with Pis. Its a problem.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> it worked before, have to get to that situation
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Alright. I got it booting just by removing the ESP flag from the partition. So stop it from being flagged/labeled ESP during img creation and it should be fine.
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> tnx, will pass this forward.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> ``` Raspberry Pi 3 Model B Plus Rev 1.3
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> [ 0.000000] Linux version 5.15.80-bcm2711 (root@79c6070d5798) (aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc (GNU Toolchain for the A-profile Architecture 8.3-2019.03 (arm-rel-8.36)) 8.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Toolchain for the A-profile Architecture 8.3-2019.03 (arm-rel-8.36)) 2.32.0.20190321) #22.11.1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Nov 30 11:02:56 UTC 2022 ```
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> your welcome
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Flag? In fdisk?
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> What does that actually do to the layout? Because the "flag" is actually the partition uuid, does the raspi look for something else specific?
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> Ok so... original rpi4b I did together with the first UEFI builds. So I shared some code...
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> Both used GPT, and an ESP flagged partition, in FAT fs.
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> Back then, the physical order of partitions was different from the logical one -- that has been changed recently for "Oleg wants it this way" reasons.
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> Sincerely tracking this down now will be harder, maybe simpler to just introduce a ${UEFI_PART_IS_ESP:-yes} or something to that effect to avoid flagging it as ESP when it isn't.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Oleg needs to quit arbitrarily changing things "wants it this way"
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> and anyone else for that matter
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> sincerely, he had a point. my way was more compatible but very confusing.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> especially with no documentation as to "why", "what" and "how it will impact other things"
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> It wasn't documented... thats all thar has to be said
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> And if it is... where?
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> There is just no reason 'currently' to do this with Pis. Not even using u-boot right? Unless you wanna make it an optional that is.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Plus I don't believe the bootcode.bin which older Pis need supports the ESP which is what the underlining problem is here. It can't find the partition because its hidden.
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> u-boot was never involved...
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> I did it that way only because was already done for UEFI "transpose so EFI is in sda15 and root in sda1, while physically EFI is first on disk"
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> and it worked a bit by accident
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> sincerely I think removing the ESP flag is the correct way to go
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> for pi's at least.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> yeah what you said. introduce a variable and problem solved.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> @rpardini hey you know the armbian build system a lot better than I do.. whats the appropriate conf method/option to have it not wipe/re-extract the kernel source every build attempt?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> I'm integrating a piece of new code that needs some fixes and it wipes out the extracted source every run in cache as is
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> found a way to accomplish what I needed to do
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> what does this mean?
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> what is "ESP flag"
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> There is no ESP flag, there is a GUID for ESP. The nonsense that is fdisk or parted should not be used in normal discussion about this topic because it is needlessly confusing.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> @ManoftheSea yes and since when has Broadcom adhered to "anyones" standards.... never
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> But esp "flag" isn't a standard
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> "hidden" is a flag. Is that getting set?
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> We can fix that by using sgdisk instead of fdisk
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> A reason to have esp as first partition is to allow uboot to discover it for purposes like "bubt" (binary update tool) which only looks at the first partition.
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> But rpi doesn't need that
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> rpi/bcm are going to use what they want, when they want.. so you better follow them not try to dictate what it "should" be
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> That's how it's always been and how it will always be as long as its foundation/bcm code.
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> you're probably right.
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> I wrote the original with parted: set 15 esp on (what I call a "flag")
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> hzyitc rewrote it with fdisk, which I think takes type=uefi
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> I understand both actually set C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B GUID
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Well, a dirty hack is to do a hybrid mbr, that identifies the partitions for the bootloader
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> But if rpi can't use ESP, there's no reason to do gpt
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> hybrid is done for UEFI x86 only
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> ew
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Hmm, is it a lack of "boot" flag due to the sfdisk method?
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> Here we just need to turn off the ESP flag in the partition and it's all good
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> That seems weird to me, that it's specifically looking for the ESP GUID and not using the partition
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> 👆
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> okay, but that's not a complete description of what got changed. What is it instead, and is that something we can make use of?
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> because ESP isn't a flag, you can't "remove the ESP flag"
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> does it look for the GUID that was put there instead? The Boot flag? a specific other label?
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> what changed is 2 things
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> - sfdisk instead of parted : some "esp flag" / GUID / whatever
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> - physical layout of partitions (sda1 / sda14 / sda15)
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> I am not digging into particulars of closed-source RPi bootloader to figure what it looks for
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> What does the working GPT layout look like?
<Armbian-Discord> <r​pardini> dunno, all boot fine on my 4b
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> blkid will give most of the info, but not the flags (actual flags, like "boot" or "hidden")
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> gdisk will reveal those in expert mode, if you look at each partition. I don't know of a better way to look at them.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> lsblk -o PARTFLAGS /dev/mmcblk0
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> PARTFLAGS
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> 0x80
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> thats a cm4 boot drive
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> everry other partition is blank
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> and drive
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> lsblk looks semi-useful
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> if you run sudo parted -l it should list the flags. example: ```sudo parted -l
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Model: SD SP32G (sd/mmc)
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 31.9GB
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Partition Table: gpt
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Disk Flags:
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> 1 16.8MB 268MB 252MB fat16 1 boot, esp
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> 2 268MB 31.9GB 31.6GB xfs 2
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> ```
Armbian-Discord has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Armbian-Discord has joined #armbian-broadcom
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> what a mess ;9
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> what would be the best approach out of this?
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> @IgorPec got a sec to check something>
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> yes
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Trying to build an image and I'm getting failures for xfce from effectively everything
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> nothing can be found
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> huh
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> just a sec I'll paste one or two
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> 01/01 16:35:53 [ERROR] CUID#6 - Download aborted. URI=https://github.com/armbian/cache/releases/download/0118/arm64-bullseye-xfce-5a634359-0118.tar.zst.asc
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Exception: [AbstractCommand.cc:351] errorCode=3 URI=https://github.com/armbian/cache/releases/download/0118/arm64-bullseye-xfce-5a634359-0118.tar.zst.asc
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> -> [HttpSkipResponseCommand.cc:218] errorCode=3 Resource not found
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> 01/01 16:35:53 [ERROR] CUID#7 - Download aborted. URI=https://mirror-us-sea2.armbian.airframes.io/cache//rootfs/0118/arm64-bullseye-xfce-5a634359-0118.tar.zst.asc
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Exception: [AbstractCommand.cc:351] errorCode=3 URI=https://mirror-us-sea2.armbian.airframes.io/cache//rootfs/0118/arm64-bullseye-xfce-5a634359-0118.tar.zst.asc
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> -> [HttpSkipResponseCommand.cc:218] errorCode=3 Resource not found
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> oh just the checksums
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> whew
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> "fat16"? shouldn't it be fat32? or that has a minimum size?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> tenkawa: that should not be a problem
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> yeah I verified they are all checksums
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> just disconcerting at first though
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> hmm, let me check
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> this cache does not exists - you are doing some custom selection of apps?
<Armbian-Discord> <I​gorPec> but if its not found, then it should start deboostraping
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> @ManoftheSea I'm just using that setup as an example of how to list the flags. If I pull that card out of the board, and stick it in my main PC, the FAT part will by default be invisible. At least on a Linux system.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> In this case, the ESP flagged partition contains the EFI binary.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> You don't want this happening on a Pi, unless you don't wanna support older boards. Although adding a u-boot bin as the kernel may be away around this? Would need to check... But the easiest way would be not to force an EFI/GPT setup on raspi images.
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Agreed... RPI's are not universally EFI/GPT friendly in general.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> Yeah its just not a good idea. Plus its not adding anything. There is no benefit to doing so. Really no benefit on any SBC from what I can tell but people are really interested in the EFI/GPT for whatever reason.
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> I guess I'm just getting old
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Hey I'm already there
<Armbian-Discord> <c​0rnelius> some old things are pretty kool; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBMU6l6GsdM
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> The benefit is a standard boot process
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Not for pi, but such as ebin
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Able to boot an iso and install Linux normally
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Hardly any distribution is doing that anymore in reality on SoCs though
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Hmm?
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> Debian is, Talos is, nixos is, fedora is
<Armbian-Discord> <T​enkawa> Netboot and microsd/usb media are the way that "most" install on SoCs... they don't use iso's
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> well, sure, the ISO is written to USB
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> and yes, Netboot is common too
<Armbian-Discord> <M​anoftheSea> but what do you netboot? efi app