2021-05-23 01:45 _whitelogger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 01:46 klange, hey 2021-05-23 01:48 hey, thanks for the org reg, we got our last op finally - he was on vacation during the ruckus 2021-05-23 01:48 PM? 2021-05-23 01:48 Can do! 2021-05-23 01:52 t-42 has left #osdev [#osdev] 2021-05-23 01:53 gog has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 01:54 nohit has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 01:55 nohit has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 01:56 klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev/2021-05-23 || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books 2021-05-23 01:57 ... I left the date in that URL, oops. 2021-05-23 01:57 klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books 2021-05-23 02:05 who owns the logger site? 2021-05-23 02:06 whitequark, very trusted person 2021-05-23 02:06 so not here right now 2021-05-23 02:07 do you know if the logs are downloadable from there? 2021-05-23 02:07 Yes, not someone who would join the channel directly. I will inquire on how we can ingest them for pisg. 2021-05-23 02:07 thanks 2021-05-23 02:08 I have read this written int: 02:08 This logger supports retrieving complete channel archives in text via lftp. Use lftp -c 'mirror https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/$CHANNEL/index/'. 2021-05-23 02:08 ​libera.irclog.whitequark.org: 401 Authorization Required 2021-05-23 02:09 in* 2021-05-23 02:09 ez pz 2021-05-23 02:10 Izem has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 02:10 klange: nm, front page of site explains how 2021-05-23 02:11 I think it needs auth so might need to ping whitequark again anyway. 2021-05-23 02:11 oh 2021-05-23 02:17 yeah, per the code it should be /osdev/index/YYYY-MM-DD.txt 2021-05-23 02:20 thanks 2021-05-23 02:27 Izem has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 02:32 mrkajetanp_ has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 02:38 cd has quit [Quit: leaving] 2021-05-23 02:39 cd1 has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 02:41 cd1 is now known as cd 2021-05-23 02:57 _whitelogger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 03:08 doug16k_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2021-05-23 03:18 kc8apf has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 03:37 Beato has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 03:55 heat has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 04:15 klange: are you changing the topic over there? 2021-05-23 04:16 I was going to wait, but I figured with the return of our "friend" now's a fine time to +m the whole place... so, yeah, I'll update the topic. 2021-05-23 04:21 Do you consider a good idea to expand who is the person you mention about, and why do you consider a good idea for the other channel to be muted, for context? 2021-05-23 04:22 The last message sent to that channel is by a routine spammer who shows up every so often to ping a bunch of people to annoy them and spout insults and such. They are solely responsible for at least two thirds of that channel's banlist. 2021-05-23 04:22 I am okay with using here, however I feel curious about why the move is now forced, if it is worth to be disclosed. 2021-05-23 04:22 I understand. 2021-05-23 04:22 He is either unmedicated or an AI. 2021-05-23 04:23 The channel is being muted to encourage interested users to centralize on this channel. 2021-05-23 04:23 And if the latter, not a particularly sophisticated one. 2021-05-23 04:23 Thank you for replying at my inquiry. 2021-05-23 04:26 I feel content about the article on the web page at this URL: https://wiki.osdev.org/Chat#IRC now points here: Now I haven't a substancial reason to stay at both places. 2021-05-23 04:26 ​wiki.osdev.org: Chat - OSDev Wiki 2021-05-23 04:28 shame about losing CrystalMath though, according to the statistics they were in the top 10 most active. 2021-05-23 04:29 clever has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 04:29 why did we lose CrystalMath? 2021-05-23 04:30 I will miss the contributions of our fellow retro operative system developer. 2021-05-23 04:30 air: well, they said they're very very pro-freenode 2021-05-23 04:30 so i expect they'll not be dropping by. 2021-05-23 04:32 doug16k has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 04:32 well, we still have #1 ;) 2021-05-23 04:33 And I appreciate much him being around. 2021-05-23 04:33 It is so nice to read about all the knowledge doug16k shares. 2021-05-23 04:34 had to clean my computer radiator 2021-05-23 04:35 apparently it doesn't just keep working forever all by itself by being water cooling :P 2021-05-23 04:35 hehe, I had to clean mine yesterday 2021-05-23 04:52 Oli has quit [Quit: leaving] 2021-05-23 04:52 Oli has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 05:13 Izem has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 05:18 EricHerman has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 05:29 rwb has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 2021-05-23 05:29 rb has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 05:30 rb is now known as Guest8740 2021-05-23 05:42 _whitelogger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 05:49 Guest8740 is now known as rwb 2021-05-23 06:01 Shikadi` has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 06:09 made a little tool to analyze how fast every pair of cpus can spin on and ping pong a cache line: https://pasteall.org/media/3/1/31b83343e1b4cca35906062100b91ff4.png https://github.com/doug65536/xcpuperf 2021-05-23 06:09 ​doug65536/xcpuperf - Detect cache line pingpong latency (0 forks/1 stargazers/MIT) 2021-05-23 06:10 that's my output on 3950x 2021-05-23 06:11 with 2400 memory clock 2021-05-23 06:12 one thread spins until it's even, then increments it, other spins until it's odd and increments it 2021-05-23 06:12 affinity forced onto every pair 2021-05-23 06:13 vai has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 06:16 so the worst time is 10x worse than best time 2021-05-23 06:16 almost 2021-05-23 06:17 8.5 2021-05-23 06:17 hm 2021-05-23 06:18 png link is output of github repo 2021-05-23 06:18 each pair of cpus changing the line as soon as other thread changes the line 2021-05-23 06:19 and measure how long the ping pongs took 2021-05-23 06:19 oh, makes sense. 32 threads, 8 per CCX, 2 CCXes per die, 2 dies. 2021-05-23 06:19 yeah 2021-05-23 06:19 and the second 16 cpus are the hyperthread 2021-05-23 06:20 right 2021-05-23 06:25 haha you could delete all but line 1 of the makefile and it would still work right? 2021-05-23 06:26 https://github.com/doug65536/xcpuperf/blob/main/Makefile 2021-05-23 06:26 ​github.com: xcpuperf/Makefile at main · doug65536/xcpuperf · GitHub 2021-05-23 06:26 builtin rule would figure out to make it from xcpuchk.cc right? 2021-05-23 06:27 oh it wouldn't say pthread. oh well 2021-05-23 06:27 I think you'd still need -pthread 2021-05-23 06:28 read your mind 2021-05-23 06:29 :) 2021-05-23 06:31 I can't believe I only found out this week that with just something.cc and nothing else, you can type `make something` and poof, it builds `something` with c++ compiler 2021-05-23 06:31 CFLAGS ? 2021-05-23 06:31 I mean even no makefile 2021-05-23 06:31 i like taking advantage of such patterns in makesfiles, makes it much harder to make mistakes 2021-05-23 06:32 this is with gmake? 2021-05-23 06:32 I mean gnu make 2021-05-23 06:32 g++ is the default compiler 2021-05-23 06:32 yeah I call gmake gnu make 2021-05-23 06:32 I wasn't sure so I was fully specific 2021-05-23 06:32 actually I'm surprised libstdc++ doesn't link against pthread 2021-05-23 06:32 but can be changed with the env var CXX 2021-05-23 06:34 yeah gnu libraries are still going as far as the non-reentrant libc code being default 2021-05-23 06:34 it 3/4 expects you to not even use threads at all 2021-05-23 06:35 strtok for example 2021-05-23 06:35 it doesn't even work with threads on right? 2021-05-23 06:35 just dont use it in any other thread? :D 2021-05-23 06:36 not that I have a lot of pity for strtok callers 2021-05-23 06:36 but my libc strtok is thread safe. if you are calling it, I want to help 2021-05-23 06:37 errno is already using TLS in 50,000 places. screw it, strtok is completely thread safe 2021-05-23 06:38 the very first instruction in my crt0 stores the thread id lol 2021-05-23 06:38 in TLS! 2021-05-23 06:39 cue do it live clip 2021-05-23 06:40 gruetzkopf has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 06:41 the linear search in strtok will touch one pointer sized tls. big deal 2021-05-23 06:41 touch once on entry 2021-05-23 06:42 If I create a ".section multiboot" for elf do I need to specifiy something for it to link properly? I have my entrypoint in there and it just disappears (objdump gives bogus start) 2021-05-23 06:43 no but you might want to wrap KEEP() around what's in there 2021-05-23 06:43 to take removing it off the table 2021-05-23 06:43 KEEP(*(.whatever)) 2021-05-23 06:44 even if you tell ld to go nuts with gc, it'll keep that stuff 2021-05-23 06:44 Well it removes both the table and the global entrypoint (it is the elf file entrypoint as well) 2021-05-23 06:44 In that case 2021-05-23 06:45 if it is something that you know looks unused to the linker, you should put KEEP around it 2021-05-23 06:45 the linker is convinced nobody references it, ever 2021-05-23 06:45 KEEP says yes I do 2021-05-23 06:46 Will try that a mom 2021-05-23 06:46 ld says really, oh sorry! 2021-05-23 06:48 It did nothing 2021-05-23 06:48 the other thing it could be is that ld decided to put it too far away from the beginning of the executable 2021-05-23 06:49 try adding -Wl,-z,max-page-size=4096 2021-05-23 06:49 can you show objdump -p -h your-kernel in a pastebin 2021-05-23 06:50 Sure 2021-05-23 06:51 I have a feeling you didn't give any section flags, and it hasn't a clue whether it is executable or writable or what and didn't do the right heuristics to fix it up 2021-05-23 06:52 www.pastebin.com/kBW1ZfRK 2021-05-23 06:52 ​www.pastebin.com: objdump -p -h mytestmytest: file format elf32-i386Program Header: - Pastebin.com 2021-05-23 06:52 Yes doug16k something like that 2021-05-23 06:52 why does it load to zero 2021-05-23 06:53 I wouldn't even try to load that 2021-05-23 06:53 where the heck is your .text segment 2021-05-23 06:53 you should not have a separate multiboot output section 2021-05-23 06:54 you should practically put a gun to its head and put your input sections at the start of the .text section 2021-05-23 06:54 it will have no choice but to put it close to the start 2021-05-23 06:54 then if you put max page size 4K it is highly likely .text will go first 2021-05-23 06:54 I'm more concerned about the complete lack of .text/.data/.rodata/.bss in that section list 2021-05-23 06:55 * clever gets example 2021-05-23 06:55 they mentioned earlier that their entry point is in multiboot section 2021-05-23 06:55 https://github.com/librerpi/lk-overlay/blob/master/platform/bcm28xx/bootcode.ld#L4-L18 2021-05-23 06:55 ​github.com: lk-overlay/bootcode.ld at master · librerpi/lk-overlay · GitHub 2021-05-23 06:55 I agree it is weird 2021-05-23 06:55 :stonk: 2021-05-23 06:55 in my case, the 512 byte vector table should be at the start, and _start should be right after 2021-05-23 06:55 kazinsal: I haven’t specifies anything for them 2021-05-23 06:55 so i put _start into .text.start, and poppped that at the start of .text 2021-05-23 06:55 GeDaMo has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 06:55 Do you want the makefile as well? 2021-05-23 06:56 yeah do what clever said 2021-05-23 06:56 you emit the stuff to a special named input section in the source, then in linker force that into a particular place in an existing output section 2021-05-23 06:56 that's the best approach 2021-05-23 06:56 the linker script i linked, ensures that .text contains .text.start .text and .text.*, in that order 2021-05-23 06:57 yeah I just throw the .multiboot and entry stuff at the start of the text segment and call it a day 2021-05-23 06:57 kazinsal: removing .section gives me a .text though 2021-05-23 06:57 sginsberg, what's wrong with .text 2021-05-23 06:57 I like it when my elf contains a .text 2021-05-23 06:57 if you fight ld, you will lose 2021-05-23 06:57 that means it has code in it 2021-05-23 06:57 ld will beat you 2021-05-23 06:58 ld is the train man 2021-05-23 06:58 send neo flying 2021-05-23 06:59 no seriously though, ld has heuristics that make it do the right thing for standard section names 2021-05-23 06:59 I got my stuff working with tcc 2021-05-23 06:59 download and compile two cross-compilers (one for efi) in seconds--it's really nice 2021-05-23 06:59 except tcc's linker doesn't understand linker scripts, so I still have to use ld 2021-05-23 07:00 :/ 2021-05-23 07:02 if you don't use the normal sections, then all the onus is on you to always say the section flags correctly in the source code to say executability and writability and to place it into an explicit output section with compatible section flags 2021-05-23 07:02 sorry place it in an explicit program header 2021-05-23 07:03 So I tried putting multiboot into text 2021-05-23 07:03 https://github.com/librerpi/lk-overlay/blob/master/platform/bcm28xx/start4/start4.ld 2021-05-23 07:03 ​github.com: lk-overlay/start4.ld at master · librerpi/lk-overlay · GitHub 2021-05-23 07:03 with compatible flags 2021-05-23 07:03 doug16k: i should probably fix this up then? 2021-05-23 07:03 doug16k: for reasons outside of my control (closed-source bootloader), those sections must be named as such, in the elf headers 2021-05-23 07:03 what does objdump -p say 2021-05-23 07:03 Start address is still wrong though 2021-05-23 07:04 clever, if program headers cover it all ok, it's good enough 2021-05-23 07:05 clever, you could "help it" by doing asm like this: .section .text.bootloader_state, "x" to make the input section say it wants executable flags 2021-05-23 07:05 doug16k: `objdump -p` doesnt really mention it, its between .text and .data, and the whole load is one LOAD entry 2021-05-23 07:05 both are data 2021-05-23 07:05 if objdump -p doesn't mention it then it won't be loaded 2021-05-23 07:05 LOAD off 0x00001000 vaddr 0xc4000000 paddr 0xc4000000 align 2**12 2021-05-23 07:05 filesz 0x000247f0 memsz 0x000270c0 flags rwx 2021-05-23 07:05 why would it be loaded 2021-05-23 07:05 www.pastebin.com/0QipV6d3 2021-05-23 07:05 ​www.pastebin.com: objdump -p mytestmytest: file format elf32-i386Program Header: - Pastebin.com 2021-05-23 07:05 this is all that `objdump -p` said 2021-05-23 07:06 Ah 2021-05-23 07:06 Nvm 2021-05-23 07:06 c401d774 g O .text.bootloader_state 00000010 bootloader_state 2021-05-23 07:06 clever, yeah that covers c4000000 thru that plus 0x270c0 2021-05-23 07:06 doug16k: and those custom sections, are within the range 2021-05-23 07:06 yep 2021-05-23 07:07 then you are fine 2021-05-23 07:07 i think the only "problem", is that .rodata is writable, and .rodata+.data are executable 2021-05-23 07:07 thing is it can be that you don't have any flags and it doesn't put it in any header 2021-05-23 07:07 but i dont know how to block those at runtime anyways 2021-05-23 07:08 but for the standard section names, it just knows the flags 2021-05-23 07:08 even if you didn't help 2021-05-23 07:08 .text.firmware_rev is an uint32_t[4] of flags, to advertise what this .elf file supports 2021-05-23 07:08 I wish I knew exactly when it does weird stuff like that 2021-05-23 07:08 if the flags arent compatible, the bootloader will refuse to execute it 2021-05-23 07:08 like not including something in any program header 2021-05-23 07:09 .text.bootloader_state is slightly more bi-directional, if it contains a magic#, the firmware will insert a pointer to a tagged list in the [1] slot 2021-05-23 07:09 riposte has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 07:09 so your .text.bootloader_state section is mutated by the bootloader during loading 2021-05-23 07:09 (I think I somewhat solved it by putting the entry outside of the .multiboot) 2021-05-23 07:10 sginsberg, put your stuff in the appropriate normal named output section and you will have happy linking 2021-05-23 07:11 What I don’t understand is it fails silently to link the entrypoint 2021-05-23 07:11 do you have a linker script? 2021-05-23 07:12 I am trying both with and without one 2021-05-23 07:13 doug16k: https://gist.github.com/cleverca22/2ea8c5ad903239e2e00030859a59ac90 ah, -S shows a lot more 2021-05-23 07:13 ​gist.github.com: gist:2ea8c5ad903239e2e00030859a59ac90 · GitHub 2021-05-23 07:13 ya objdump -h shows that 2021-05-23 07:13 pretty sane order 2021-05-23 07:15 gist updated with a -h output 2021-05-23 07:15 www.pastebin.com/ekJyUpwS I know I know this is my first attempt ... 2021-05-23 07:15 ​www.pastebin.com: ENTRY(entry)PHDRS{ headers PT_PHDR PHDRS; text PT_LOAD FILEHDR PHD - Pastebin.com 2021-05-23 07:15 Wait 2021-05-23 07:15 Wront file 2021-05-23 07:16 32 bytes* 2021-05-23 07:16 doug16k: most odd part in my gist, is that there is 32bits of writable sections, between 2 read-only sections 2021-05-23 07:16 Ignore the bss entry I got nothing in there yet 2021-05-23 07:16 clever, if I were a broken bootloader I would be all broken from permission changing without page alignment between .text and .text.bootloader_state :D 2021-05-23 07:16 Copy pasta 2021-05-23 07:16 went from readonly to readwrite in middle of page right? 2021-05-23 07:17 doug16k: yep, and not even 16 byte aligned! 2021-05-23 07:17 doug16k: with that ^ script entrypoint is gone again 2021-05-23 07:17 but there is no MMU on this arch, so pages dont mean much 2021-05-23 07:17 clever, ya but ld is obsessed with mmus 2021-05-23 07:19 something that harmless could mean it being weird and showing dwarf errors or something 2021-05-23 07:19 ive not done much with the debug info yet 2021-05-23 07:20 does it think max page size is 1 2021-05-23 07:20 can you do that? 2021-05-23 07:20 how would i know? 2021-05-23 07:20 I try not to piss ld off nowadays 2021-05-23 07:21 probably fine 2021-05-23 07:21 the most adventurous ive been, was trying to make a .elf where the _start symbol, was 0x200 bytes into the .elf binary itself, and the linker also knows its at 0x8000_0200 2021-05-23 07:21 so i could run the .elf without an objcopy -> .bin step 2021-05-23 07:22 but it broke easily 2021-05-23 07:22 I am superstitious from multiple times where I did something unusual and it made the debug info all screwy and I later was able to fix the code and fix it 2021-05-23 07:23 gdb never ever crashes or asserts out for me 2021-05-23 07:23 Izem has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 2021-05-23 07:23 gdb doesnt even support this arch 2021-05-23 07:23 and no gdb stub exists, and the jtag isnt documented 2021-05-23 07:23 it's almost as if they don't want a clever person reversing it 2021-05-23 07:23 :D 2021-05-23 07:24 i think the debug info is still mostly standard, they released an unstripped file by accident once 2021-05-23 07:24 and ghidra could understand the debug info 2021-05-23 07:24 it was extracting debug info on structs 2021-05-23 07:25 you can force objdump to dump the debug info 2021-05-23 07:26 neatest is dumping the decoded-lines 2021-05-23 07:26 --dwarf-start ? 2021-05-23 07:26 you get line number vs start address list 2021-05-23 07:26 --dwarf[=rawline,=decodedline,=info,=abbrev,=pubnames] etc... 2021-05-23 07:27 there are 3 or 4 more lines of other = things 2021-05-23 07:27 ah, just scrolled up and found that one 2021-05-23 07:27 decodedline is awesome 2021-05-23 07:27 I extract that for my perf top 2021-05-23 07:27 for display of course 2021-05-23 07:27 asymptotically has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 07:27 [nix-shell:~/apps/rpi/lk-overlay]$ vc4-elf-objdump --dwarf=decodedline -d build-rpi4-start4/lk.elf | less 2021-05-23 07:28 data collection is just a silly number of pc snapshots 2021-05-23 07:28 ip, rip, instruction pointer 2021-05-23 07:28 yep, this looks like what you might use when mapping a PC back to a line# 2021-05-23 07:28 previously, i just ran `objdump -S` and looked the PC up manually 2021-05-23 07:28 so my profiler gathers line level perf top 2021-05-23 07:29 systemwide 2021-05-23 07:29 same way - perf counters and NMI 2021-05-23 07:29 NMI so I can get samples in a spinlock or something 2021-05-23 07:29 something that cli 2021-05-23 07:30 I did the crazy stuff to make that guaranteed swapgs right 2021-05-23 07:30 sadly, decodedline finds nothing at all in the official firmware 2021-05-23 07:32 ah okay 2021-05-23 07:32 i was away but i see the moved channel 2021-05-23 07:32 sure. for lack of anyone else doing something, klange moved on it and go klange! 2021-05-23 07:33 2021-05-23 02:40:10 sorry for the PM, but if you want to remain on freenode and talk about OS development, please join ##osdev 2021-05-23 07:33 and others are trying to hijack the community in PM 2021-05-23 07:34 ya -S way is fine 2021-05-23 07:34 decodedline is more for when you want to brute force get all the line number info 2021-05-23 07:35 might be worth updating the topic 2021-05-23 07:35 dunno. i'll just follow where the center is, and it's clearly here now so there ya go 2021-05-23 07:35 no interest in politics 2021-05-23 07:36 doug16k: trying to make sense of --dward=frames now... 2021-05-23 07:36 ah, frames-interp looks more readable 2021-05-23 07:37 tells you at each starting point in the code, how do you put it back to caller's state (restore callee saved stuff) 2021-05-23 07:37 pretty_dumm_guy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 07:37 to unwind or stack trace 2021-05-23 07:38 doug16k: it starts out with `r0 + 0`, and from knowing the asm, i know that nothing needs to change on that line 2021-05-23 07:38 each point is an accumulation of the effect of everything above it up to the startproc 2021-05-23 07:38 doug16k: on the line of asm where `add sp, sp, -4` gets ran, the debug info claims `r0 + 4` 2021-05-23 07:38 why is it saying r0 and not sp? 2021-05-23 07:38 they assign numbers to the registers for the dwarf info 2021-05-23 07:39 they can be weird? 2021-05-23 07:39 that could be it 2021-05-23 07:39 there is also an `add r6, sp, 0` which just copies sp->r6, and the debug info is claiming `r0+8` now 2021-05-23 07:39 frame info is obsessed with the stack pointer and where you put callee stuff relative to that, mostly anyway 2021-05-23 07:39 it would make a lot of sense to make that 0 2021-05-23 07:40 r6 is used as a frame pointer in this toolchain 2021-05-23 07:40 but neat thing about frame info is, you can be all weird and use anything for the frame pointer 2021-05-23 07:40 and even go weird and say stuff is saved in a register, not stack frame 2021-05-23 07:41 like the return address is in some weird register 2021-05-23 07:41 stack unwind would use it 2021-05-23 07:41 doug16k: and for the official firmware, it is reporting such state, and in more depth too 2021-05-23 07:42 you know how x86_64 puts return address in rcx? my frame info says the caller's rip is in rcx and gdb says no problem and understands completely 2021-05-23 07:42 syscall 2021-05-23 07:42 neat 2021-05-23 07:44 then at some point I put it down on the stack and then emit a cfi that says no from here on get it relative to the cfa memory 2021-05-23 07:44 wherever I feel like putting it 2021-05-23 07:45 in the cfa region 2021-05-23 07:45 the stack 2021-05-23 08:01 hmm, now i gotta remember what I think Mutabah was doing to get the server to show up in the status bar of irssi 2021-05-23 08:08 ah i see it 2021-05-23 08:08 18:38 < Mutabah> in the config file, under `statusbar` `window = "{sb $winref:$tag/$itemname{sbmode $M}}";` 2021-05-23 08:10 lemme see 2021-05-23 08:10 geist has left #osdev [#osdev] 2021-05-23 08:11 geist has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 08:11 okay, yeah that worked, neat 2021-05-23 08:31 gareppa has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 08:43 geist is now known as geist2 2021-05-23 08:44 geist2 is now known as geist 2021-05-23 08:45 froggey-1 is now known as froggey 2021-05-23 08:47 looks like you can register multiple nicks via nickserv group 2021-05-23 08:49 _whitelogger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 08:54 riverdc has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 09:02 bslsk05 has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 manawyrm has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 les has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 Affliction has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 jstoker has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 brenns10 has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 ornitorrincos has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 smarton has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 kc8apf has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 thaumavorio has quit [*.net *.split] 2021-05-23 09:02 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that might no longer be a problem with recent postgres, needs to be checked though 2021-05-23 10:05 dennis95 has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:10 asymptotically has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 10:23 gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 10:25 _whitelogger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:27 nope, still a problem 2021-05-23 10:28 it's super frustrating because it's specifically *generating the index page* that's a problem, not serving the logs themselves, which you'd think would be computationally far worse 2021-05-23 10:29 ok 2021-05-23 10:29 I think our primary purpose for raw access is for the pisg processing, so if the logs can be served without the problematic index... 2021-05-23 10:29 also, weird 2021-05-23 10:30 (also thanks for stopping by to check in on things ;) ) 2021-05-23 10:30 MrBonkers has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:30 klange: you can directly access https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev/2021-05-23.txt for example 2021-05-23 10:30 are you able to use .htaccess to only auth the index? 2021-05-23 10:30 (just fixed that so that it actually works) 2021-05-23 10:31 (there was an issue with a sinatra upgrade some time earlier) 2021-05-23 10:31 yay :D 2021-05-23 10:31 you can also do it monthly https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev/2021-05.txt 2021-05-23 10:31 or omit joins/parts https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev/2021-05.txt?quiet=1 2021-05-23 10:31 air: there's no htaccess, it's configured in nginx 2021-05-23 10:32 pretty_dumm_guy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2-dev] 2021-05-23 10:32 (hmm, the .txt file are served without a character set so I see UTF-8 mojibake) 2021-05-23 10:32 so the index is redirecting to avoid issues? 2021-05-23 10:33 oh, hm 2021-05-23 10:33 XgF: Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8 ? 2021-05-23 10:33 or something? 2021-05-23 10:33 something like that 2021-05-23 10:33 heat has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:33 charset=utf-8 it seems 2021-05-23 10:34 XgF: where are you testing this? 2021-05-23 10:34 aquijoule_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2021-05-23 10:34 whitequark: Firefox! Maybe the dev tools being odd? 2021-05-23 10:34 XgF: no like, which url? 2021-05-23 10:34 https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev/2021-05-23.txt 2021-05-23 10:35 wait, that has unicode in it? 2021-05-23 10:35 nvm found it 2021-05-23 10:36 snake messages, generally, we don't speak too many other languages here so it's usually just midline dots from webpage 2021-05-23 10:36 immibis has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:36 * XgF ensures some more Unicode £€ 2021-05-23 10:37 ಠ_ಠ 2021-05-23 10:37 damn, we've moved permanently 2021-05-23 10:37 It was a surprisingly unanimous decision, though the timing was decided by _other_ outside factors. 2021-05-23 10:39 _whitelogger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 2021-05-23 10:39 yep, the dots are now dotty 2021-05-23 10:40 hurrah :-) 2021-05-23 10:40 Oh key klange, can I get flags for #osdev please? 2021-05-23 10:40 klange: what is "pisg" by the way 2021-05-23 10:40 let me see, libera's chanserv is a different implementation 2021-05-23 10:40 sortie: ⚑ 2021-05-23 10:40 whitequark: ancient irc log scraping thing that generates stat pages 2021-05-23 10:40 and has a funny name 2021-05-23 10:40 Yo there air 2021-05-23 10:40 ahh 2021-05-23 10:40 How are you? 2021-05-23 10:40 I have coffee and a fresh ircd port 2021-05-23 10:41 yay, one more channel i can leave to free up space on chatzilla's space-limited channel bar. (Anyone have client suggestions? chatzilla is a pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, except for this one problem) 2021-05-23 10:41 it's an initialism... I hope, though I read it as an acronym: Perl IRC Statistics Generator 2021-05-23 10:41 oh god the server is lagging hard 2021-05-23 10:41 I clicked the log and I read messages a solid 10-20 seconds before they hit my client 2021-05-23 10:42 immibis, I use hexchat, works fine 2021-05-23 10:44 sortie: okay you should have all the bits I can give 2021-05-23 10:44 klange: Woohoo :) 2021-05-23 10:45 klange: Ah neat, y'all went ahead with a +m move to libera.chat after all 2021-05-23 10:47 It was a sudden action as one of our "old friends" showed up. 2021-05-23 10:47 And there was general agreement on it, so, it happened. 2021-05-23 10:47 oooooohhhhhhh 2021-05-23 10:47 lol 2021-05-23 10:47 ok, hopefully the logs will download and generate stats when today ends 2021-05-23 10:47 Oh geez which old friend? The GPU markov bot or much, much worse? 2021-05-23 10:47 Yes! 2021-05-23 10:47 whitequark has left #osdev [#osdev] 2021-05-23 10:48 cmrg has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:48 I wonder if he's going to continue spamming freenode #osdev 2021-05-23 10:49 or at least trying to, that is 2021-05-23 10:49 klange: Well then I am almost entirely off freenode besides a corp channel I didn't forcibly move just yet and an inactive topical channel where I talk to the idlers every few eyars 2021-05-23 10:49 and http://osdev-logs.qzx.com redirects to new site 2021-05-23 10:49 ​redirect -> bespin.org: #OSDEV on Libera 2021-05-23 10:52 I am out of everything except #osdev which I'm monitoring - want to see if it gets captured - and a channel that has moved but we need to make sure one particular members gets the message. 2021-05-23 10:53 captured? 2021-05-23 10:53 yeah 2021-05-23 10:53 Lee has apparently been reclaiming channels that move. 2021-05-23 10:53 like they did with that hacker news channel 2021-05-23 10:55 I think it wouldn't be terrible if they "took" #osdev back, it's a general purpose topic! 2021-05-23 10:55 Not going to operationally interfere, but taking channels that move? perfect. 2021-05-23 10:55 makes sense, you don't want a channel with a topic redirecting users to another network 2021-05-23 10:55 Freenode has always had 'this channel has moved' channels 2021-05-23 10:56 but not this many all at once 2021-05-23 10:56 j`ey: it's not so much the hijacking of the channel, they try to hijack the community 2021-05-23 10:56 fragmentation bad :( 2021-05-23 10:56 Affliction: to different networks, or just names? 2021-05-23 10:56 networks 2021-05-23 10:57 I've run into a few over the years 2021-05-23 10:57 Fragmentation _is_ bad, which is why we're all moving here :) 2021-05-23 10:57 except cyrstalmath :P 2021-05-23 10:57 oh no! 2021-05-23 10:57 anyway 2021-05-23 10:57 Well if he trusts the crown prince more than me, he's free to stay with him. 2021-05-23 10:58 He can make his own ##osdev, with blackjack and deposed Korean royalty. 2021-05-23 10:59 terrorjack has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:59 Well even if they reclaim these channels, the core of the community has already moved 2021-05-23 10:59 isaac has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 10:59 Anything left will be a poor imitation 2021-05-23 10:59 Totally the right move to not fragment the community though :) 2021-05-23 10:59 most people get to "here" from the wiki page anyway, and it has been updated appropriately and I have been sure to express the full context of the situation to the best of my abilities. 2021-05-23 11:01 maybe a forum post would be nice? 2021-05-23 11:02 I can post one in the announcements board, sure. 2021-05-23 11:03 need to sort out libera and oftc znc entries then... 2021-05-23 11:03 i thought this channel wasnt associated with the wiki/forums, thats what people have said :P 2021-05-23 11:04 We've gone from "coincidentally has overlap in staff" to "now connected, but still not the same entities". 2021-05-23 11:05 eg. #osdev is not "osdev.org's IRC channel" or the reverse, but we're in a commited relationship and go to movies and eat dinner together 2021-05-23 11:06 FireFly has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 11:06 j`ey: yeah but I was thinking it might be nice to let non-regulars know 2021-05-23 11:21 so what is third network choice if osdev is reclaimed and libera dies? 2021-05-23 11:22 oftc got mentioned a bunch 2021-05-23 11:22 If all goes sour, I'll just start up my own server again. 2021-05-23 11:24 The problem with "reclaiming" channels is: channels, nicks, etc all have exirations if unused, but thats tampering with the services to fullfill ones own goals, which mean theres no reason to trust any of the services there now. 2021-05-23 11:25 k. Now I just need to implement dynamic linking. 2021-05-23 11:26 You should do that, and do it correctly following all the rules unlike me. 2021-05-23 11:28 heh, i only noticed this channel on this network ( by overlap with other channels i usually frequent that have moved ) ) 2021-05-23 11:30 lleo has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 12:09 gog has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 12:09 * gog meows 2021-05-23 12:16 sortie: port another dynamic linker and be done with it 2021-05-23 12:17 dynamic linking is hard :( 2021-05-23 12:17 gareppa has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 12:17 heat: Why dynamically link a set of built in modules when I can just haxxx and static link them :) 2021-05-23 12:17 Introducing fake dlopen that just has a table of ‘modules’ that are already statically linked into the program 2021-05-23 12:19 ahhhhhh 2021-05-23 12:19 can you even do that without actual linker hacks? 2021-05-23 12:23 I mean I gotta link the .a files onto the executable 2021-05-23 12:37 oops I made literally zero progress on my network stack this weekend because I was too busy trying to fix multicore synchronization issues and dealing with this IRC nonsense 2021-05-23 12:38 asymptotically has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 12:40 Lucretia-backup is now known as Lucretia 2021-05-23 12:43 I feel like the are some obvious-to-me-but-not-quite-sure-how-to-fix-them issues remaining, which I guess is good? 2021-05-23 12:44 The further I get with debugging, though, the harder it gets... you fix the obvious issues and now you've got some one-in-a-million event happening you can't build a test case to reproduce... 2021-05-23 12:47 So in my kernel I am in protected mode, can I trigger a breakpoint under QEMU/GDB. Like INT 3, or do I need to set this up in my code. E.g. when my code gets to a CLI;HLT, I can break in via gdb and see my stack/registers. But I'd prefer a bp and resume 2021-05-23 12:47 I'm stuck with an asan issue because I'm too lazy to fix it 2021-05-23 12:48 and I can't progress in other areas too because I'm scared all this code is wrong 2021-05-23 12:49 OK ircd made it to the mainloop 2021-05-23 12:50 wooohoo 2021-05-23 12:50 But seems to be stuck in some sort of 100% CPU usage loop 2021-05-23 12:50 Alas I don't have strace.. 2021-05-23 12:51 i have a broken strace 2021-05-23 12:51 * heat should get a ptrace-like interface going and switch to that 2021-05-23 12:53 my backlog of things that I want to work on is impressively big and my lazyness is even bigger 2021-05-23 12:57 OK neat it seems to spend most of the CPU time in the kernel 2021-05-23 12:57 sortie: is this the original WiZ ircd? 2021-05-23 12:59 klange: State of the art solanum 2021-05-23 13:00 sortie: you going to donate a seerver running sortix to libera? :P 2021-05-23 13:02 not if onyx gets there first 2021-05-23 13:08 My gut feeling is that there's something wrong with the main loop's polling 2021-05-23 13:15 isaac has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Chie!~Isaac@user/isaac))] 2021-05-23 13:15 isaacwoods has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 13:17 fwg has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 13:22 hm, i should get solanum running on sgi irix :> 2021-05-23 13:29 Ugh it was testing for the non-standard sys/poll.h instead of the standard poll.h so it wasn't using poll(2) but select(2).. 2021-05-23 13:38 do you not have select? 2021-05-23 13:38 select is for weenies 2021-05-23 13:39 heat: I do have select but it's awful and I only emulate it in terms of poll(2). Might've been slightly wrong with the timeout or something. 2021-05-23 13:39 It now power idles correctly and the main loop isn't busy. New connections get disconnected without reason after a second now tho. 2021-05-23 13:39 oh 2021-05-23 13:40 i thought about that but it seems really slow in user space so I just did it in the kernel 2021-05-23 13:40 thankfully my poll backend is flexible enough that it worked out really smoothly for select too 2021-05-23 13:43 Mine is... possibly still the cause of some of my multicore issues. 2021-05-23 13:43 Though I did fix most of it. 2021-05-23 13:49 Linux says the apicid for the second physical core on my t410 is 4... so I guess I'll have to fix the 1-1 mapping I was using temporarily in qemu... easy enough, something to do tomorrow. 2021-05-23 13:49 If I can get two cores up on that thinkpad I'll have a little party 2021-05-23 13:49 But for now, good night! 2021-05-23 13:58 yuriks has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:00 dutch has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.1] 2021-05-23 14:02 Shikadi` has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:05 dutch has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:33 FreeFull has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:37 sav has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:44 jimbzy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:46 sav has quit [Quit: .] 2021-05-23 14:46 sav has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:47 pretty_dumm_guy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 14:55 I have arrived! 2021-05-23 14:58 Welcome, jimbzy! 2021-05-23 14:58 And good night, klange! 2021-05-23 15:04 we all have arrived :3 2021-05-23 15:10 Yay 2021-05-23 15:31 sav has quit [Quit: .] 2021-05-23 15:42 the gang's all here 2021-05-23 15:44 vai has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2021-05-23 15:46 pretty_dumm_guy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2-dev] 2021-05-23 15:51 vancz has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 15:53 can anyone recommend material to read about writing portable c 2021-05-23 15:59 posix, or maybe the relevent C standard are the first that come to mind. 2021-05-23 16:04 jimbzy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 16:09 cmrg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 16:16 sortie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 16:22 Oli has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2021-05-23 16:24 Oli has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 16:26 gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 16:28 I was about to mention about this C book and link to one, and checking it, realized it was a traditional Chinese version of the one I was thinking about linking here. 2021-05-23 16:29 I recommend to read The C Programming Book's second edition, by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Richie: They are the creators of this book are also the creators of the C programming language. 2021-05-23 16:46 Izem has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 16:48 kc8apf has quit [Quit: Updating details, brb] 2021-05-23 16:48 kc8apf has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 16:49 froggey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 16:52 knebulae has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 16:56 froggey has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 17:09 Izem has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 17:48 immibis_ has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 17:48 immibis has left #osdev [#osdev] 2021-05-23 17:50 immibis_ is now known as immibis 2021-05-23 17:57 https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_abuse - expect freenode staff to put the osdev channel back on freenode at some point 2021-05-23 17:57 ​www.devever.net: Freenode IRC operators now engaging in routine abuses of power 2021-05-23 17:57 alexander has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:02 sav has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:03 I saw this earlier https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0/pull/513/commits/2037126831a84c57f978268f090fc663cf43ed7a 2021-05-23 18:03 ​github.com: policy update by realrasengan · Pull Request #513 · freenode/web-7.0 · GitHub 2021-05-23 18:04 GeDaMo: yeah, they basically just changed the rules, so what immibis pasted wouldnt be a violation 2021-05-23 18:04 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27256843 Freenode removes hate speech rule 2021-05-23 18:04 ​news.ycombinator.com: Freenode removes hate speech rule | Hacker News 2021-05-23 18:05 GeDaMo: and what i didnt notice at first, is that on your diff, they also removed the rules about hate-speech 2021-05-23 18:05 so hate-speed is now allowed on freenode, lol 2021-05-23 18:05 I'm sure that's just a coincidence :| 2021-05-23 18:06 https://matrix-client.matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jfutPHxbkOpoQKoeBBujjYRB 2021-05-23 18:06 GeDaMo: ive also seen other reports, claiming that both sides where over-reacting to the other side 2021-05-23 18:07 X did Y, take away his powers 2021-05-23 18:07 vai has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:07 oh no, i lost my powers, its a hostile take-over! 2021-05-23 18:07 no, your hostile!! 2021-05-23 18:07 GeDaMo: but that snowball doesnt explain the rapid rule changes.... 2021-05-23 18:08 pretty_dumm_guy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:11 oh yay you can post porn on freenode node 2021-05-23 18:11 doug16k has left #osdev [Leaving] 2021-05-23 18:11 just what it was missing honestly 2021-05-23 18:11 doug16k has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:12 Yes, this is how to modernize IRC :| 2021-05-23 18:14 clever: since hate speech is now on-topic on freenode I took the liberty of registering ##transphobia, ##homophobia, and ##nazis. don't know what to do with that since i'm not a homophobe, transphobe, or nazi, but eh 2021-05-23 18:14 :D 2021-05-23 18:16 immibis: that's probably squatting but who cares it's gppd 2021-05-23 18:16 also /me knows who will probably ask freenode staff for the channel 2021-05-23 18:17 lol 2021-05-23 18:17 i don't even have any nazi friends to invite while I get popcorn. which is a good thing, of course, not having nazi friends 2021-05-23 18:17 immibis, merge them together into a chat session only rivalled by a youtube live chat stream 2021-05-23 18:18 (##osdev has so far flopped, maybe a forced redirect will bring it to life? ;p) 2021-05-23 18:18 ##osdev exists? 2021-05-23 18:18 you forgot ##covidsfake 2021-05-23 18:18 Can you have them re-direct to each other in a circle? 2021-05-23 18:18 flopped? the freenode one was shut down by ops 2021-05-23 18:18 chanops not network ops 2021-05-23 18:18 this is now the only osdev channel 2021-05-23 18:20 also, where's ##themoondoesntexist and ##iseedeadpeople 2021-05-23 18:20 i think the other one is +m. Not as serious as ##hamradio, which was set to a limit of 1 user and then everyone was kicked 2021-05-23 18:20 those aren't hate speech 2021-05-23 18:20 someone decided to make it a thing, someone mentioned it here, i joined because why not 2021-05-23 18:21 ? 2021-05-23 18:21 cmrg has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:21 There's also Cordless that might work on OpenBSD. It's a TUI client. But it's best to not use Discord at all :-) 2021-05-23 18:22 i like discord 2021-05-23 18:23 maybe i'll go back to freenode and sit in ##transphobia and cyberbully transphobes 2021-05-23 18:24 but that loses its appeal fast 2021-05-23 18:24 it's empty :((( 2021-05-23 18:24 lol good 2021-05-23 18:25 don't feel like being subjected to "40% lol two genders attack helicopter kek" 2021-05-23 18:26 what about ##terf 2021-05-23 18:26 ##gendercritical pls 2021-05-23 18:26 what's terf? 2021-05-23 18:26 terf is a slur 2021-05-23 18:26 :p 2021-05-23 18:26 Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist 2021-05-23 18:27 huh 2021-05-23 18:31 it's not actually a slur, that's just what terfs say when you rightly accuse them of being terfs 2021-05-23 18:31 but that's way off topic and i won't get into the weeds about it :p 2021-05-23 18:34 MiningMarsh has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 18:35 Izem has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 18:37 vai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 18:39 terfs are what we call "acceptable targets" 2021-05-23 18:42 ^ 2021-05-23 18:44 jjuran has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 18:45 Izem has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 18:56 jjuran has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:09 sav has quit [Quit: .] 2021-05-23 19:10 asymptotically has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 19:11 jimbzy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:14 sav has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:20 jimbzy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 19:22 sav has quit [Quit: .] 2021-05-23 19:23 sav has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:25 v4skie has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:33 i heard qcow2 has some kind of version/state saving feature. do people actually use that. 2021-05-23 19:33 i guess it's called snapshotting 2021-05-23 19:34 as opposed to just something like fedora.~1~, fedora.~2~, etc 2021-05-23 19:39 jimbzy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:39 Phew. FINALLY got the lawn mowed after 2 weeks of rain. 2021-05-23 19:46 johnjay: yah i use it actually 2021-05-23 19:46 you can actually snapshot from inside the console too 2021-05-23 19:46 snapvm i think? 2021-05-23 19:46 qemu console you mean? 2021-05-23 19:47 i just want to keep a base system i can access for testing. 2021-05-23 19:47 it's like saving a game. if you die you can respawn at the checkpoint (snapshot) 2021-05-23 19:47 so it might be easier to just do debian.qcow2 and debian2.qcow2 2021-05-23 19:48 right, there's basically two ways to do it: explicitly set up a qcow2 as a reference to another one 2021-05-23 19:48 and then you can commit changes from the second to the first explicitly 2021-05-23 19:48 or you can use the snapshot feature inside it and make as many as you want and delete old snapshots 2021-05-23 19:48 the former is neat, but it can't be done while the vm is running 2021-05-23 19:48 i see 2021-05-23 19:48 wait what do you mean commit changes? 2021-05-23 19:48 qemu-img commit i believe 2021-05-23 19:49 i just want a snapshot that doesn't change then work and update or whatever in the second one 2021-05-23 19:49 it copies changes in the second qcow to the firstone 2021-05-23 19:49 ok 2021-05-23 19:49 sure. that sounds like you want to create a qcow reference to the frist one 2021-05-23 19:49 gareppa has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:49 johnjay, in qcow2's slang, it is named as copy on write: One can create a qcow2 copy on write image of an existing qcow2 image, using the next qemu-img command: qemu-img create -f qcow2 -o backing_file=original.qcow2 copy_on_write_file_for_original.qcow2 2021-05-23 19:49 Pro tip: If you have to mow a wet lawn spray the bottom of your mower with PAM cooking spray and marvel as nothing sticks. 2021-05-23 19:50 i think it's just s qemu-img create with a ... yeah what Oli said 2021-05-23 19:50 that's cool, ive just been copying some .qcows around recently 2021-05-23 19:50 also SkyZ discovred me on discord 2021-05-23 19:50 skyz is resourceful :P 2021-05-23 19:51 also note if you're using btrfs or zfs or something you can just let the fs do the snapshotting for you 2021-05-23 19:51 jjuran has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2021-05-23 19:51 I tried the experimental zfs in ubuntu 20. snapshots every apt update 2021-05-23 19:52 i more or leess use btrfs on all my linux boxen now and use subvolumes fairly regularly 2021-05-23 19:52 or just reflink copies. if you'e smart about it you can do some neat stuff with it 2021-05-23 19:52 I was wondering what happened to SkyZ 2021-05-23 19:52 Nothing, apparently :p 2021-05-23 19:53 jjuran has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 19:53 we had kicked him eventually 2021-05-23 19:53 for some reason my images are .img not .qcow2 is that wrong? 2021-05-23 19:53 since he just wouldn't stop 2021-05-23 19:53 but he hasn't yet discovered this 2021-05-23 19:54 but while i was reading the wiki page in the freenode channel link i stumbped upon the discord osdev thing 2021-05-23 19:54 which i hadn't checked in a year or two 2021-05-23 19:54 and then skyz discoveed me there 2021-05-23 19:54 geist: can you give an example in simple terms so i can understand? what sort of neat stuff? 2021-05-23 19:54 johnjay, if they are flat images you can use qemu-img convert 2021-05-23 19:54 geist, Just write their OS for them and let them put their name on it and they'll leave you alone. 2021-05-23 19:54 doug16k: no they are qcow but they are named .img for some reason 2021-05-23 19:55 ah 2021-05-23 19:55 jimbzy: well i dont want to diss on it too hard, there seems to be some actual discussions going on there, but there's some sort of air of... i dunno 2021-05-23 19:55 crass? 2021-05-23 19:55 hard to describe. like it's younger folks, which are fine. everyone is young 2021-05-23 19:55 but there's more likely to have shitposts or random rants in the channel topics or whatnot 2021-05-23 19:56 I can't say nothing because I am the master of the offtopic rant, but shitposting isn't my thing. 2021-05-23 19:56 also it's generally an asset to discord and slac and whatnot, but sometimes having 30 channels to cover a topic seems like it spreads things too thin 2021-05-23 19:57 geist: discord is more wild and crazy yes. simply for the reason it was founded as a gaming platform and has image/video thumbnail sharing. 2021-05-23 19:57 it also makes creation easier so more people have them 2021-05-23 19:57 whereas in irc it's less likely for me to have my irc server and you to have yours 2021-05-23 19:57 yah i dont really mind it except for all the usual reasons if will it be around in 5 years, etc 2021-05-23 19:57 I tried discord. then realized it was a "post pictures of questionable food all day" chat system 2021-05-23 19:58 You folks don't have your own IRC servers? 2021-05-23 19:58 well. probably not. but that is a high bar to pass 2021-05-23 19:58 actually i was wondering just last night if libera is connectable with old, unencrpted clients 2021-05-23 19:58 time to brush off my old irc client from my first OS 2021-05-23 19:58 I'm not 6667 2021-05-23 19:58 erm I'm not using encryption. Port 6667 2021-05-23 19:59 My hands are kinda sore from the vibration. 2021-05-23 19:59 discord (not that specific one) also seems to have a slight air of being careful not to annoy the discord admins, because they will just delete your whole "server" (guild) 2021-05-23 19:59 which is where you end up with harsh rules instead of just saying "use common sense please" 2021-05-23 19:59 immibis: yeah, exactly. the admin stuff is less distributed, so you're at the mercy of a few 2021-05-23 19:59 gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 20:00 v4skie has left #osdev [Leaving] 2021-05-23 20:00 yea you can connect unencrypted 2021-05-23 20:00 the one that immediately sets me off a teensy bit is the osdev discod has a channel for beginners and then for more advanced osdev 2021-05-23 20:00 an the topic has a huge bold thing like DONT ASK ABOUT PAGING HERE!!!!11 2021-05-23 20:00 hahahaha 2021-05-23 20:01 almost certainly a joke and totally harmless, but it seems, i dunno 2021-05-23 20:01 "OS development centric discussions. || DO NOT ASK HOW PAGING WORKS HERE OR ANYTHING TRIVIAL RELATED TO PAGING. GO TO #beginner" 2021-05-23 20:01 this discord guild has rules like: editor war = ban. language war = ban. advertising = ban. not english = ban. anything against discord rules = ban. 2021-05-23 20:01 and you know that because they are not discord admins, they will take a broad view of what might be against discord rules 2021-05-23 20:01 in order to avoid missing anything that the actual admins don't like 2021-05-23 20:02 ah i see skyz just discovered the same discord channel 2021-05-23 20:02 started posting random links to pdfs 2021-05-23 20:02 doing the usual skyz topic drop thing 2021-05-23 20:02 Hehehe 2021-05-23 20:03 well anyway. i kinda feel sorry for him, tried to help but i suspect he has severe ADD or something 2021-05-23 20:03 i'm in several minecraft modding guilds and because one of the discord rules is "no video game cheating", any time someone asks for help and accidentally reveals they have a cheat installed, you must stop helping them immediately 2021-05-23 20:04 he just flits around between topics but can't actually stop and do the work he needs to do 2021-05-23 20:04 I got that, too, geist. ADD or ADHD or something. My ToDo lists are deeply nested. 2021-05-23 20:04 kspalaiologos has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 20:05 It could just be part of parenting a child with autism, too. Little nerd doesn't understand things like "Give me a minute" 2021-05-23 20:06 yah 2021-05-23 20:08 now im curious about the discord server 2021-05-23 20:08 lets see 2021-05-23 20:09 heat: i tried to give it a good try last year but it just seemed like the overall expertise level was too low 2021-05-23 20:09 and more importantly trying to help i didn't get a lot of serious uptake 2021-05-23 20:09 hard to describe but it didn't seem like folks asking for help really wanted it... i guess 2021-05-23 20:10 woah so many people 2021-05-23 20:10 but obviously there are good olks and so 2021-05-23 20:10 They want easy answers. 2021-05-23 20:10 yah i dont want to brush everyone with the same color, but it seems like the overall level of discourse is just lower than i think a good day here 2021-05-23 20:12 It is exactly how I feel about. However, they have a channel dedicated to sharing resources, and feel entices about taking a look at once I find a good time for. 2021-05-23 20:12 geist: i guess the level of discourse is set by many factors. discord does have the feeling of being a causal thing for gaming or like watching a movie with friends 2021-05-23 20:12 that's what i use it for 2021-05-23 20:12 enticed* 2021-05-23 20:13 like it would be weird to go into a common area and say hi want to talk about how to assemble ikea furniture? like you could but it's not really part of the "vibe" 2021-05-23 20:13 yeah I see what you mean 2021-05-23 20:13 yah i am on like 10 different discord servers 2021-05-23 20:14 but to a certain extent that's the problem. i dont have enough hours in the day to stay on top of all of them 2021-05-23 20:14 so i typically just ignore most of them most of the time 2021-05-23 20:16 just left the server, kinda meh 2021-05-23 20:16 but I did find geist though, so 10/10 2021-05-23 20:16 can you send me a couple of them to join? 2021-05-23 20:17 heat: yah i think i saw you but didn't send message 2021-05-23 20:17 LLVM is on discord now 2021-05-23 20:17 we went around as to where the officialy fuchsia channel is supposed to be on. i think we actually internally settled on zulip, which no one has ever heard of 2021-05-23 20:17 so thus no one uses, and the second 'official' channel is irc, which we just bounced to oftc 2021-05-23 20:18 riposte has quit [Quit: Quitting] 2021-05-23 20:18 j`ey: compiler internals being discussed in discord sounds fun lol 2021-05-23 20:18 I would bet most of it is "hurr durr code doesn't work help" 2021-05-23 20:18 lol 2021-05-23 20:19 I asked some linker questions there, and got some anwsers at least! 2021-05-23 20:20 jjuran has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2021-05-23 20:20 really aside from the centralized ownership, will it be around, connecting from weird clients, and everything i can totally admit that slack/discord/etc are superior technically 2021-05-23 20:20 What's weird is FOSS projects being on Discord, which is known to be a botnet 2021-05-23 20:20 but there's something about irc just being a lowest common denominator that generally speaking sticks around 2021-05-23 20:20 cmrg: why? 2021-05-23 20:20 jjuran has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 20:20 It just works. 2021-05-23 20:20 And it does just enough to be useful. 2021-05-23 20:20 probably because text Just Works 2021-05-23 20:21 because if you have a FOSS project, you have to use FOSS everything I guess? 2021-05-23 20:21 heat: Because Discord has nothing to do with the FOSS philosophy 2021-05-23 20:21 yeah for things like hanging out with friends and more casual stuff I like discord, it's a way funnier experience, but for technical stuff yeah, IRC is nice 2021-05-23 20:21 cmrg: you called it a botnet 2021-05-23 20:21 heat: https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/discord.html 2021-05-23 20:21 ​spyware.neocities.org: Discord — Spyware Watchdog 2021-05-23 20:22 "Further reading" has some more interesting articles 2021-05-23 20:22 nothing about it being a botnet tho lol 2021-05-23 20:22 interesting, i assumed the connection requirements to discord would make it too hard to botnet 2021-05-23 20:22 lol that's bullshit 2021-05-23 20:22 but i guess if you can roll a new login at any time its no big deal? 2021-05-23 20:23 in fact there's lots of illegal activity going on in discord that they literally can't ban 2021-05-23 20:23 geist: Good thing is that you can use Discord without a registered account, so I give them that 2021-05-23 20:24 jimbzy has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by jim_!~jim@67.6.87.211))] 2021-05-23 20:24 nooo jimzy was killed! 2021-05-23 20:24 rip jimzy 2021-05-23 20:24 jimbzy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 20:24 jim killed jimbzy 2021-05-23 20:24 hes dead jim 2021-05-23 20:24 what a monster 2021-05-23 20:24 jim on jim 2021-05-23 20:25 The Return of Jim 2021-05-23 20:25 jim 2 2021-05-23 20:25 also a big advantage of discord is that you can enforce 2FA, which is absolutely lovely 2021-05-23 20:25 didn't even need defibrillator 2021-05-23 20:25 no weird spammers like in IRC 2021-05-23 20:25 heat: There are spammers in IRC 2021-05-23 20:25 s/IRC/Discord/ 2021-05-23 20:25 the jimmassacre 2021-05-23 20:25 Hopefully, that won't be much of an issue after Tuesday when they install my new 1gbps service. 2021-05-23 20:25 cmrg, never met them 2021-05-23 20:25 well that's true. back in 2010 when #osdev was being completely slammed with He Who Shall Not Be Named 2021-05-23 20:25 I have, usually through DMs 2021-05-23 20:25 i was pretty much ready to give up irc 2021-05-23 20:26 eugh, yeah, that was the Bad Year 2021-05-23 20:26 was fairly convinced the whole thing couldn't sustain anything newer 2021-05-23 20:27 side note: double check that nickserv here and other new channels you were on isn't making things public you dont want 2021-05-23 20:27 i learned a while ago that oftc nickserv by default publishes your email, etc 2021-05-23 20:27 not that i care, but others might 2021-05-23 20:28 yeah, check your irc client realname as well 2021-05-23 20:28 might be blasting your gecos field to the world 2021-05-23 20:28 too bad IRC doesn't have an @everyone for PSAs like that 2021-05-23 20:28 yah i noticed i can get a cloak in oftc by checking a box but.... then nickserv info just goes ahead and shows the last ip address ic onnected from 2021-05-23 20:29 huh. bizarre 2021-05-23 20:29 seems pretty self-defeating 2021-05-23 20:30 wallops? 2021-05-23 20:30 jjuran has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2021-05-23 20:32 GeDaMo has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2021-05-23 20:33 afaik, there is a message type in irc that's directed at everyone in a channel 2021-05-23 20:34 geist: You can use nickserv and set "secure", "enforce" and "private" 2021-05-23 20:34 Some staff on #oftc said the default changed today, so 2021-05-23 20:34 ah good. i switched to private, though i realy dont care if folks know my email address 2021-05-23 20:34 it's all over github 2021-05-23 20:35 * gog meows 2021-05-23 20:36 exactly 2021-05-23 20:36 sortie has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 20:36 @everyone meow 2021-05-23 20:36 a few weeks ago I got emailed by a random dude that wanted me to teach him osdev 2021-05-23 20:37 That's nice. Was he arc4random? 2021-05-23 20:37 skyz dm'd me about a week ago 2021-05-23 20:37 * meisaka nyans 2021-05-23 20:37 sortie: no he used srand(time(NULL)); rand() 2021-05-23 20:37 OK. I went to a concert and am now three beers drunk and making noodles and it is time to pull an all nigher and wake up tomorrow with a Sortix IRC network. 2021-05-23 20:37 kircd 2021-05-23 20:38 yay 2021-05-23 20:38 i'm 0.5L beers drunk and I found a bug 2021-05-23 20:38 this makes me work so much better 2021-05-23 20:38 i'm sober and everything is terrible 2021-05-23 20:39 meisaka: that would be called a plain old message? (aka PRIVMSG) 2021-05-23 20:39 jimbzy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 20:39 oh no everything is still terrible but with a taste of guinness in my moth 2021-05-23 20:39 mouth* 2021-05-23 20:39 My next opponent is sendmsg(2) failing because it's called on something that's not a socket (ENOTSOCK) 2021-05-23 20:40 sortie: the ircd is failing that way/ 2021-05-23 20:40 ? 2021-05-23 20:40 immibis: i thought was something else, but maybe my memory fails me 2021-05-23 20:41 kazinsal: Solanum, also used by libera.chat :) 2021-05-23 20:42 dormito: Yup. Gonna debug 2021-05-23 20:43 sav has quit [Quit: .] 2021-05-23 20:43 I had cl-ircd running yesterday, but too lazy to punch ports through my router, so no public access 2021-05-23 20:44 Woot go go froggey 2021-05-23 20:45 I get ENOTSOCK sometimes when getting dressed, due to the holes in it 2021-05-23 20:46 it's no longer a sock/ 2021-05-23 20:46 bah dieing laptop keyboard 2021-05-23 20:46 with a big enoug hole any sock becomes a leg warmer 2021-05-23 20:46 well, maybe only an ankel warmer 2021-05-23 20:47 doug16k: i'm gonna get you a pair of programmer socks 2021-05-23 20:48 they increase coding ability 2021-05-23 20:48 I need those 2021-05-23 20:48 OH 2021-05-23 20:48 God dammit 2021-05-23 20:48 find the issue already/ 2021-05-23 20:48 Y'all will NEVER believe why send(2) works on a TCP socket but sendmsg(2) doesn't 2021-05-23 20:48 Do they stack? 2021-05-23 20:49 ... I only implemented send(2) in tcp(4) and forgot to implement sendmsg(2) 2021-05-23 20:50 why are they different? 2021-05-23 20:50 Buncha extra parameters and iovec stuff 2021-05-23 20:50 I don't think I have ever called sendmsg in my entire life 2021-05-23 20:51 all my write/read/send/sendto/recv/recvfrom are implemented on top of sendmsg 2021-05-23 20:51 assuming you have a working sendmsg(2), it's only for unix sockets? 2021-05-23 20:51 I have a working sendmsg(2) for UDP 2021-05-23 20:52 oh 2021-05-23 20:52 https://github.com/heatd/Onyx/blob/master/kernel/kernel/net/socket.cpp#L1005-L1044 2021-05-23 20:52 ​github.com: Onyx/socket.cpp at master · heatd/Onyx · GitHub 2021-05-23 20:52 sendmsg is cool 2021-05-23 20:52 sendmmsg is much cooler 2021-05-23 20:52 yet to implement though 2021-05-23 20:53 And Unix sockets 2021-05-23 20:53 i thought you also needed sendmsg to provide datagram guarantees? 2021-05-23 20:54 cmrg has quit [Quit: leaving] 2021-05-23 20:58 is that MSG_CONFIRM ? 2021-05-23 20:58 what the heck does MSG_CONFIRM mean? 2021-05-23 20:59 reprobe via what ARP request? 2021-05-23 20:59 wait until it gets an ack? (well only on TCP) 2021-05-23 21:00 that would be kinda useful i guess: send this part of the socket and dont return until it has been fully acked by the other side 2021-05-23 21:00 s/socket/tcp stream/ 2021-05-23 21:00 geist: speaking of github, is there a way to reformat it or something? 2021-05-23 21:00 oh is this to quickly notice disconnections? 2021-05-23 21:01 johnjay: reformat what? 2021-05-23 21:01 oh wait nevermind 2021-05-23 21:01 ah I see they explain in arp(7), my bad 2021-05-23 21:01 well i went to my page and the icon i chose is huge but i chose small pixel size so it looks like crap 2021-05-23 21:02 but i went to klange github and his icon is also overly large 2021-05-23 21:03 i guess it's just the github site itself then 2021-05-23 21:05 pretty_dumm_guy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2-dev] 2021-05-23 21:06 pretty_dumm_guy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 21:06 froggey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 21:06 pbx has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 21:12 froggey has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 21:13 richbridger has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 21:18 pretty_dumm_guy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2-dev] 2021-05-23 21:21 I found a visualization of modern software running on modern hardware: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/4tGGW1 2021-05-23 21:21 ​www.shadertoy.com: Shader - Shadertoy BETA 2021-05-23 21:23 oh that's neat 2021-05-23 21:23 is that the clown from SS13? 2021-05-23 21:23 or are they both based on some well-known clown? 2021-05-23 21:24 just look at how that sprite is encoded 2021-05-23 21:26 this one is way beyond me how it works: http://glslsandbox.com/e#56547.0 2021-05-23 21:26 ​glslsandbox.com: GLSL Sandbox 2021-05-23 21:27 sort not math postdoc 2021-05-23 21:27 sorry not* 2021-05-23 21:28 I mean how do you make him look around like that and tween everything. geez 2021-05-23 21:29 geist2 has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 21:31 * *** Checking Ident 2021-05-23 21:31 * Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). 2021-05-23 21:31 OMG 2021-05-23 21:31 geist2 is me as well, going to try irccloud for a bit and see how well it works for me 2021-05-23 21:31 sortie: this is your irc server you just wrote? 2021-05-23 21:31 he's porting 2021-05-23 21:31 geist2: solanum powering this pristine network 2021-05-23 21:32 slowortix? 2021-05-23 21:32 ? 2021-05-23 21:32 oh you know how folks used to say 'slowaris' when talking about solaris 2021-05-23 21:33 I've never actually had anyone talk to me about Solaris and meant it 2021-05-23 21:33 yah a bygone era really 2021-05-23 21:33 since solaris hasn't mattered in 10 years or so 2021-05-23 21:33 This irc did have a comment where someone raged against solaris stdio 2021-05-23 21:34 i remember way back in the day (say around 2000) it was kinda the gold standard of unix implementations 2021-05-23 21:34 we'd spend much more time in osdev circles talking about 'what does solaris do in this case' 2021-05-23 21:34 the gold standard of unix implementations is sortix 2021-05-23 21:34 lol no 2021-05-23 21:34 Though I have started to actually try 2021-05-23 21:34 sortix: not written in the 90s 2021-05-23 21:35 bsd: written in the 90s 2021-05-23 21:35 see a trend? 2021-05-23 21:35 doug16k The webbrowser I am using, min, freezes with that animation a bit of time in: It looks demo-y; and am definitely saving it and figuring out how to watch later: Thank you for sharing it! 2021-05-23 21:36 there are a lot of shaders on that site, not all so gpu intense as that 2021-05-23 21:38 that one is in my "oh my, how?" list though :) 2021-05-23 21:40 just the head movement and independence of head, the blinks are perfect, and how right the neck is, etc 2021-05-23 21:40 jimbzy has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 21:41 heh this M1 mac chews this one up 2021-05-23 21:41 can you link one that's particularly expensive? 2021-05-23 21:41 yeah 2021-05-23 21:41 selfie girl i guess 2021-05-23 21:41 https://www.shadertoy.com/view/WsSBzh 2021-05-23 21:41 ​www.shadertoy.com: Shader - Shadertoy BETA 2021-05-23 21:41 alexander has quit [Quit: leaving] 2021-05-23 21:42 this gets about 4fps on the mac 2021-05-23 21:42 Ok. I think I got this setup right. 2021-05-23 21:42 https://www.shadertoy.com/view/MdX3Rr 2021-05-23 21:42 ​www.shadertoy.com: Shader - Shadertoy BETA 2021-05-23 21:42 brutal one 2021-05-23 21:42 though i guess the size of the viewport matters a lot 2021-05-23 21:43 oh the mac does fine on this one 2021-05-23 21:43 It reminded me about this whole 3:35 intro with music, in 4KB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o 2021-05-23 21:43 good 30fps at 1280x720 2021-05-23 21:43 ​'elevated by Rgba & TBC | 4k intro (FullHD 1080p demoscene demo)' by Demoscene High-Quality Videos (Annikras) (00:03:36) 2021-05-23 21:44 oh the mountain one falls over if i go full screen on hte mac though 2021-05-23 21:44 at 4K 2021-05-23 21:44 Oli: Good eye, Inigo Quilez was involved in both 2021-05-23 21:46 Wait 2021-05-23 21:47 try this one: http://glslsandbox.com/e#5935.3 2021-05-23 21:47 ​glslsandbox.com: GLSL Sandbox 2021-05-23 21:47 I posted it before even visiting doug16k link LOL 2021-05-23 21:47 it will say your shader compiler rules or sucks 2021-05-23 21:47 Nice coincidence 2021-05-23 21:47 more mindreading today 2021-05-23 21:48 it renders "sucks" if your compiler precision isn't right 2021-05-23 21:49 it likes nvidia and intel 2021-05-23 21:50 it says "rules" on some amd I hope? 2021-05-23 21:50 it likes my amd on linux too 2021-05-23 21:50 on my machine at least 2021-05-23 21:51 Hmm, need to allow anonymous auth with my ircd 2021-05-23 21:51 ok for a sec I thought it might not be a legit test 2021-05-23 21:52 on my phone it's just "YOU GLS COM" and then some garbage. Seems legit 2021-05-23 21:53 the shader code comment mentions horrible floating point implementations that use 16 bit mantissa and throw zeros in the low 7 bits of result mantissa 2021-05-23 21:55 Anything for that throughput, right? 2021-05-23 21:55 yeah, and you can get away with pretty crap precision for graphics 2021-05-23 21:56 so much going on you can't notice a 2^-16 difference or smaller in the value 2021-05-23 21:57 maybe seams that flicker are worst thing, that's why you share the verts though and don't have t junctions: they all use the incorrectly calculated vertex coords :P 2021-05-23 21:59 I wonder if that causes trouble when porting e.g. the HDR rendering pipeline in unreal engine - or if they just give up and use LDR 2021-05-23 21:59 Like, tone-mapping ends up a bit wonky 2021-05-23 22:00 can be that big gpu doesn't have half precision and little one does and that makes it look worse 2021-05-23 22:01 Hmm I think my ircd can sendmsg(2) now but it doesn't seem to hear clients 2021-05-23 22:01 newest ones will have float16 though 2021-05-23 22:02 gotta half float16 so you can quote the stupidly high TFLOPS for it on the box :P 2021-05-23 22:02 dennis95 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2021-05-23 22:02 have* 2021-05-23 22:03 sortie, recvmsg? 2021-05-23 22:03 sortie: bringing up irc on your own OS? libc? 2021-05-23 22:04 heat: Yeah I implemented it, although the program doesn't seem to be using it 2021-05-23 22:04 Might be a poll thing 2021-05-23 22:04 jaevanko: Yeah ircd and got my own libc 2021-05-23 22:04 sick 2021-05-23 22:05 a lot of servers like poll(2) 2021-05-23 22:05 servers usually don't like poll 2021-05-23 22:05 epoll is better ;) 2021-05-23 22:05 or, if you're a weirdo, kpoll 2021-05-23 22:05 excuse me, kqueue 2021-05-23 22:06 meisaka: Heck this thing here is even powered by an evolved version of the net stack you once contribed :) 2021-05-23 22:06 don't open this link unless your gpu is powerful: http://glslsandbox.com/e#45232.1 extremely difficult shader if you put it on "1" divisor at top 2021-05-23 22:06 ​glslsandbox.com: GLSL Sandbox 2021-05-23 22:07 probably slowest one I have 2021-05-23 22:08 I remember these shaders 2021-05-23 22:08 I ran across them when I was researching SDFs 2021-05-23 22:09 sortie: scary thought :P 2021-05-23 22:10 meisaka: It does.. uh have some scary TODOs left in the device driver parts 2021-05-23 22:11 I mean I totally reworked most of your contribution beyond recognition but the driver stuff semantics remains 2021-05-23 22:12 i feel so stupid 2021-05-23 22:12 posix reads like legalese 2021-05-23 22:12 "The value of the pgid argument is valid but does not match the process ID of the process indicated by the pid argument and there is no process with a process group ID that matches the value of the pgid argument in the same session as the calling process." <-- what the fuck does this mean 2021-05-23 22:14 Ryozuki has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 22:14 The ARM manuals are similar for similar reasons. 2021-05-23 22:14 that is statement isn't it? 2021-05-23 22:15 There's a difference between the Intel-style "Describe what you've done" manuals and the "This describes how to implement it such that you don't end up screwing it up." 2021-05-23 22:15 I believe both the ARM manuals and the Posix standard are similar in that way. 2021-05-23 22:15 I agree it is hard to map that to a sensible interpretation 2021-05-23 22:15 It sounds like a description of matching up arguments with kernel state. 2021-05-23 22:16 where is the rest of the sentence though. is that really it? 2021-05-23 22:16 yes 2021-05-23 22:16 :O 2021-05-23 22:16 it's part of an errno 2021-05-23 22:17 https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/setpgid.html 2021-05-23 22:17 ​pubs.opengroup.org: setpgid 2021-05-23 22:17 that sounds to me like, you try to set a process group, but you're in the wrong session for it 2021-05-23 22:17 oh it returns EPERM in that case, that adds a ton of sense to the fragment 2021-05-23 22:17 ... I mean, that's telling you the conditions for a specific error. 2021-05-23 22:17 In that case, it makes a ton more sense. 2021-05-23 22:17 "If the following is true, return EPERM." 2021-05-23 22:18 It's not the most readable thing on the planet, but it is basically a legal document. 2021-05-23 22:18 https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/setpgid.2.html 2021-05-23 22:18 ​man7.org: setpgid(2) - Linux manual page 2021-05-23 22:18 "To implement Posix, you must have this behavior." 2021-05-23 22:18 compare with the man7 page 2021-05-23 22:18 the difference is ridiculous 2021-05-23 22:20 they never specify the behaviour for a non existent pgid, or a pgrp without a leader 2021-05-23 22:20 I expect everyone to assume it does what linux does 2021-05-23 22:20 setpgrp() is even better, they say "If setpgrp() creates a new session, then the new session has no controlling terminal." but it's never specified whether or not it creates a session 2021-05-23 22:21 "It is unspecified whether this function behaves as setpgid(0,0) or setsid() unless the process is already a session leader. Therefore, applications are encouraged to use setpgid() or setsid() as appropriate." 2021-05-23 22:21 ?????????? 2021-05-23 22:21 it did in the predicate 2021-05-23 22:21 if it creates a new session 2021-05-23 22:22 no it doesn't, it never says whether or not it creates it 2021-05-23 22:22 If setpgrp() creates a new session, then... 2021-05-23 22:22 heat: I implemented this stuff correctly in Sortix I believe 2021-05-23 22:22 what part am I missing 2021-05-23 22:22 setpgrp does not make a session 2021-05-23 22:22 setpgrp is essentially UB 2021-05-23 22:22 you can implement it as setpgid(0, 0) or setsid() 2021-05-23 22:22 OK don't listen too much to me 2021-05-23 22:23 which one? who fucking knows 2021-05-23 22:23 heat: Don't implement setpgrp and getpgrp. 2021-05-23 22:23 Only setpgid and getpgid are sensible and portable 2021-05-23 22:23 it's implemented in the libc 2021-05-23 22:23 so it's currently doing what linux does 2021-05-23 22:24 Linux? How retro 2021-05-23 22:24 (setpgid) 2021-05-23 22:24 FreeFull has quit [] 2021-05-23 22:25 sortie: i think your setpgid is non-compliant 2021-05-23 22:25 you can setpgid a process group leader 2021-05-23 22:26 Oh no 2021-05-23 22:26 heat: I'm too much in the zone of my own deranged madness to think about progress groups right now :) 2021-05-23 22:27 don't worry I'm in my own deranged madness 2021-05-23 22:39 hgoel has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 22:42 freakazoid333 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 22:42 pounce has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 22:43 sav has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 22:49 haha seeing if some old github code I have up still works, noticed my usb headset supports 32 bit float sample format lol 2021-05-23 22:49 8 16 24 32 formats! 2021-05-23 22:49 cuckoo 2021-05-23 22:50 Arthuria has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2021-05-23 22:51 sav has quit [Quit: .] 2021-05-23 22:52 as if it is saying, "let's see you find some audio code so stupid it doesn't work" 2021-05-23 22:52 good luck 2021-05-23 22:53 signed unsigned or float 2021-05-23 22:53 never seen sound device that overboard before 2021-05-23 22:54 it sounds like they covered all the bases 2021-05-23 22:54 stops at 48000. doesn't go to some ludicrous sample rate like some motherboard ones 2021-05-23 22:55 ugh, not even 88k? 0/10, not worth buying 2021-05-23 22:55 they are trying to cheat by hearing enemy footsteps in the game better 2021-05-23 22:56 if they want to cheat they should get quad speaker - 2 rear 2021-05-23 22:56 total cheat 2021-05-23 22:56 you can hear exactly where they are 2021-05-23 22:56 freakazoid334 has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 22:57 i'm sure anyone trying to use their sound card as a signal generator for electronics purposes appreciates high sample rates 2021-05-23 22:58 s16le@48khz or bust 2021-05-23 22:59 yeah, sane person usually throws it on that or 44.1 if even more timid 2021-05-23 23:00 froggey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2021-05-23 23:00 1/65536th is small enough increment for mechanical thing pushing air around 2021-05-23 23:01 what if you are trying to run it at 1/6553 volume? Then you only have 11 steps of pushing. Can you hear it? no idea 2021-05-23 23:01 humans will dynamically compensate for the quiet and crank up their sensitivity 2021-05-23 23:01 I think 16-bit has _technically_ slightly less range than human hearing, but...doubt it ever matters in practice 2021-05-23 23:02 immibis: this is for the hw interface. When mixing you can use 24-bit or 32-bit formats 2021-05-23 23:02 (f32 is effectively 24-bit fixed-point) 2021-05-23 23:03 at the end of the day ya it is 24 bit sample 2021-05-23 23:03 with capability to have unusably high precision for lower numbers 2021-05-23 23:03 and handle input that is way past clipping and have volume scale it down before it is ruined 2021-05-23 23:06 froggey has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 23:07 you might be just mixing sine waves in iDCT or something and it can handle whatever scale, whatever sample rate, and is float already. 2x bandwidth of 16bit sample though 2021-05-23 23:07 seds has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in] 2021-05-23 23:10 I wish I had more lifetime totals known. like total disk read DMA, total keypresses, mouse distance, total number of sound card irqs, total sound card bus master TLPs 2021-05-23 23:11 imagine how many times a soundcard fetched data from ram just for you? 2021-05-23 23:11 a lot 2021-05-23 23:12 sound card is crazy one because humans need super tight latency 2021-05-23 23:12 we can hear where you are from sound that bounced off rocks man 2021-05-23 23:13 OK, looks like my ircd port is able to receive from and send to clients. The auth doesn't quite seem to be working or something. 2021-05-23 23:13 seds has joined #osdev 2021-05-23 23:13 when you come to kill us 2021-05-23 23:13 Feels like a good time to give up before it's suddenly 3-4 AM 2021-05-23 23:15 I don't usually know when to give up on projects, which is why I get no sleep 2021-05-23 23:27 Knowing when to stop is a skill in its own right... 2021-05-23 23:28 I have a project called "Fast"SpectrumAnalyzer and UI update perf sucks in gnome lol 2021-05-23 23:29 on 3950x + 2060 super, somehow 2021-05-23 23:30 when I named it it was smooth as glass on windows qt :P 2021-05-23 23:31 How is that possible? 2021-05-23 23:32 perf top blames memcpy 2021-05-23 23:32 I guess I should gprof it 2021-05-23 23:32 That just blows my mind. 2021-05-23 23:32 it should be 60fps near zero cpu on athlon64 800MHz 2021-05-23 23:33 with 2d accelerator 2021-05-23 23:33 That's bad. 2021-05-23 23:34 Wanna get drunk about it? 2021-05-23 23:34 lol 2021-05-23 23:34 ;) 2021-05-23 23:37 I should go all the way and put an opengl 3.3 renderer in there 2021-05-23 23:37 stutter that! 2021-05-23 23:43 is there a way to check for debug info sanity? 2021-05-23 23:43 objdump -S the whole thing - it'll whine about dwarf to stderr 2021-05-23 23:43 that'll get some anyway 2021-05-23 23:44 I have made it screw up the debug info and it spammed a bunch of complaints about "abbrev" things 2021-05-23 23:45 for instance 2021-05-23 23:45 i do have a dwarf error 2021-05-23 23:45 I'm not sure if it's ok though 2021-05-23 23:45 likely ok. depends on whether you have gdb blowing up or asserting or disconnecting or it's fine 2021-05-23 23:46 i'm getting this thing where gdb gets completely screwed up when debugging my clang-built kernel 2021-05-23 23:46 works fine with gdb 2021-05-23 23:46 err, gcc 2021-05-23 23:46 for a while there were a couple of spots I couldn't step. it went away after I improved something in the link 2021-05-23 23:47 it didn't know line number info 2021-05-23 23:47 one region actually of assembly 2021-05-23 23:47 my assembly has full source level debug info 2021-05-23 23:48 I was getting those abbrev complaints 2021-05-23 23:48 I think it was having things that it thinks *must* be writable and they aren't 2021-05-23 23:49 hard to imagine how that causes it though 2021-05-23 23:49 I gave up and let stupid things like init_array be writable 2021-05-23 23:50 gonna write that eh? lol 2021-05-23 23:50 got too 2021-05-23 23:51 it is absolutely convinced you will write the got 2021-05-23 23:51 it doesn't know you are god 2021-05-23 23:52 you said "let the got be initialized" earlier, when it wasn't paying attention 2021-05-23 23:53 i am god 2021-05-23 23:54 *pets gog* 2021-05-23 23:55 i am gog 2021-05-23 23:55 doug16k, yeah I assume I might be screwing up the linker script and that is screwing it all up 2021-05-23 23:56 I would try to put it all nicely going with the flow and see if it goes away. no weird writable in readonly or funny business 2021-05-23 23:57 and never use align before/after : in output section 2021-05-23 23:57 always play with . before, then let it lie 2021-05-23 23:58 ld might go "no actually it needs to be even more aligned" if you play with dot before. with it in output section declaration you are a crazed guy that pulled a gun and ld says "ok ok!"